[McDusty]

hi mcdusty we use usg 90 easy sand for 8"and usg total for the 10" and 12" boxes.the new zealand plaster here is designed to be applied by hand here.we can get usg and hamiltons there is one other the national gypsum company. I have used all of these products and are easy to get here.

i'm fully aware of the material you have, just got back from 4 months in NZ 'gib-stopping' or whatever stupid name you guys had for it. the mud you guys have sucks. The only one i saw that was half decent was... USG Lite or something, it was a blue or purple lid i forget.

at no point should you ever need to go around and 'knife' or 'wipe-down' your box work.

10" - use #2 or 3 setting. slight crown, dries virtually flat. (mud shrinks, even 'hot' mud shrinks a little.
12" - use #4 or 5 setting. flat blade, skim coat, you should be able to box out an entire room before making your way back to the pump.

the settings depend on variables.
- blade wear
- runner wear
- brand
- where the 2 adjusting nuts are set at for your tension rod.
- thickness of your mud. (the crown on the box changes when mud get's squeezed out of it, thicker = more flex in the crown, thinner = less.)

 

[Capt-sheetrock]

I feel lost,,, I use easy-finish mud (cheapest there is). I tape with a banjo or bazooka, let dry, bed with an 8 box and skim with a 10 box (both columbia's). Don't have a problem with pock marks or need a third coat.

I guess I'm just missing something here

2 weeks ago, some painters I know, took a job and then called me after they realized they couldn't finish 580 brds in one week. They had taped it ALL in mesh(butts and flats),lol, they had bought pro-form black lid. I beded it with an 8, skimed it with a 10, sanded it with a PC,,, guess what,,,,, wait for it,,,, NO POCK MARKS !!!!!!!!!!

They hadn't messed with the corners, so I taped them with paper and run em twice with the mudrunner (If they had used mesh there, they would have had to rip it out, or finish it thenselves)

 

[JustMe]

at no point should you ever need to go around and 'knife' or 'wipe-down' your box work.

On this one, I'm lost along with Capt., McDusty. I thought you were running the 10" a 2nd time right away in place of knifing/wiping down your 1st box run. But maybe I guessed wrong. Are you using that 2nd box run for something else?

 

[Capt-sheetrock]

at no point should you ever need to go around and 'knife' or 'wipe-down' your box work.

Never? what about laps??? Do you run 1/2 half a wall today and the other tomarrow to aviod these? What kind of boxes do you run that fill the joint ALL the way back into the corner??? What happens when you pick up trash??? do you clear the trash from the blade and then re-run the flat without haveing any buildup that has to be wiped???


Maybe thats why you have to run three coats,,,,,, Pinholes (pock-marks) seem to follow you around?????

Sorry bro, but that statement is bogus!!!

 

[JustMe]

I feel lost,,, I use easy-finish mud (cheapest there is). .....................

....................... guess what,,,,, wait for it,,,, NO POCK MARKS !!!!!!!!!!

Could the no pocking be a lot because of the easy finish mud? Or the mud brand you get? Or maybe you just know what you're doing?

We get Synko given to us to use. They've supplied Synko lite finish to maybe 3 jobs I've been on. The rest of the time, it's been all-purpose for coating.

Every once in awhile a few ProRoc boxes show up.

 

[JustMe]

Btw: I have few pock mark issues, if really any, by the time it comes to final coating and sanding.

 

[McDusty]

we are just on different pages and use different terms for things. i see where you are coming from... yes i suppose my second run would be a 'substitute' for wiping down. there are differences between doing what i do, and taking a knife and actually wiping it down.

yes, if i pick up a hitch-hiker (some crud in my mud) then of course i run the flat again.

as far as taking down the lap marks, that's what sanding between coats is for.

getting right into the corner, not always a big deal. depends how you run your angles... and not using the cheapest material one can get his hands on is a good start too.

 

[Capt-sheetrock]

we are just on different pages and use different terms for things. i see where you are coming from... yes i suppose my second run would be a 'substitute' for wiping down. there are differences between doing what i do, and taking a knife and actually wiping it down.

yes, if i pick up a hitch-hiker (some crud in my mud) then of course i run the flat again.

as far as taking down the lap marks, that's what sanding between coats is for.

getting right into the corner, not always a big deal. depends how you run your angles... and not using the cheapest material one can get his hands on is a good start too.

We seem to butt heads alot, you and me.

Reading your post,,, if I was going to sand in between coats, I wouldn't bother wiping behind the box either. Kinda comes down to symatics ya know. Using high dollar mud as opposed to cheap mud will have no effect on how far back into the corner your box goes, nor the number of pock-marks.

Really we are argueing techniques here,,,, I have my helper wipe ALL the joints as I run em. We don't have to sand between coats, cause there are no laps or whatever. I find it quicker and cheaper to do this, than to sand between coats. Not that there is anything wrong in doing it the way you do it.

 

[McDusty]

yes we are arguing technique, but what we can agree on is that a box of any size is better than doing it by hand. now that would be horse and buggy for sure.

 

[Capt-sheetrock]

yes we are arguing technique, but what we can agree on is that a box of any size is better than doing it by hand. now that would be horse and buggy for sure.

Yes, AMEN, your right !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[2buckcanuck]

SO .......sdrdrywall,did you find a answer to your question in any of these post :whistling2:

 

[Bill from Indy]

Capt, sorry to say, but I fall into the category no knife behind the box...boxes are made to "finish" drywall....not just apply mud to wipe down...I/we can do that with a paint roller and is a lot cheaper than a 1k$ box setup...

BUT...90% of my work is standup:thumbup:..flames and laps are at knee height or lower and get scraped between bed/skim or helper runs through with sanding pole

for laydown work, I pick the corners at angles but only drag them about 6" out of the corner...I seldom leave laps with the box that are bad enough that need wiped down...just have to learn to run the boxes right.....i'm in no way calling you out here capt....as im sure you don't have to wipe any laps you leave with a box

for me...and this is my opinion...why drag behind box to leave waves in flats or pull out mud that is meant to fill or float? Maybe this is why 2 coats with 8/10 cover for me

 

[taper71]

Well I like what I've been reading and agree with both arguments. I do not wipe behind my boxes anymore. I used too, because I would be filling the corner where the box can't get into. I stopped because it is alot faster for me just to run the box throughout the whole house and then go back and fill the corners. I have to run my 10"box on a lighter setting because of that now and run my box both directions except on ceilings that get textured. I will double run on joints that have high shoulders but will usually just open up the box more and run beside the high spot and fill in later. It seems to me that the mud we get does not shrink back very much at all, and a 3 coat system would actually crown the flat and cause me more sanding in the end than its worth. Why put the 3rd box coat on if your just going to sand it off ? I am going to assume that everyone here knows how crappy the finish looks when you sand through a coat into the one before it.

 

[joepro0000]

I used to use my columbia 10 - 1st coat on setting 3, then 2th coat on setting 4, with my 12, and final skim by hand. But after working on some jobs along with my pieceworkers, I learned a better technique.

Use the 1st coat - 10" box on setting 1 or 0. Let it fill real good. Don't whip it, its a waste of time. lightly sand before applying the 2th coat. I apply the second coat on setting 2, with a 12" box, and I'm done. You can do some small touch ups before running the 12 that where there before, but it cover. I mix my mud pretty watery for the 2th coat. Also I do the box by myself, no need for help. Let the other finishers work on the c-beads and angles. Reason I change, I notice when applying the 1st coat at a setting of 3, it would leave it smooth, drywall quicker, but it would not fully fill the joints. Especially since most of our work is stand-ups, the mud would strink, we would apply the 12" with a 4 setting, etc etc, then when the walls were primed /painted, you can notice a slight indent where the joints were not filled enough. The box fooled us, thats why I changed methods and it works for me now perfectly. 98% no touch ups after prime, and most of all, the walls are completely FLAT!

I too use the cheapest mud. Holla at the EASY FINISH from LOWES!

 

[cazna]

Joe and the capt, you say your using easy finish, We have that here as well but its not the cheapest, its the more expencive brand, Are you guys taping with it as well???

 

[Kiwiman]

Joe and the capt, you say your using easy finish, We have that here as well but its not the cheapest, its the more expencive brand, Are you guys taping with it as well???

Hey Caz, I heard thru a builder that the guy who originally owned your mudrunner is using easy finish for taping now, I heard it secondhand so could be wrong, my guess is the builder got it wrong coz why would someone use a more expensive compound thats not intended for the job and there's boat loads of cheaper Usg all purpose available from the supplier he uses.

 

[sdrdrywall]

SO .......sdrdrywall,did you find a answer to your question in any of these post :whistling2:

i got lots of answers but theyre all different! i tried your way yesterday and its really clean to finish with the 12 thanks its nice to get real advice

 

[JustMe]

yes i suppose my second run would be a 'substitute' for wiping down.

That was the reason I used to do it that way - a substitute for knifing out pock marks and other problems.

 

[Capt-sheetrock]

Easyfinish is the cheapest mud there is around here, its 8.50/5er, thats more than 2.00 cheaper than anyother brand. Its an ap, so perhaps what your talking about is a differant mud. Yes we tape with it.

I understand the reasons you guys don't wipe,,, but if you re-read your posts, those that don't wipe, go back around a fill the corners, scrape the walls, and sand between coats. Nothing wrong with that. The way I do it, I don't have to go back around and fill and sand. The end result is you are not saving any time by not wipeing. Plus wipeing reduces pock marks by like 99.9%.

I always prefer to deal with wet mud than have to scrape,fill and/or sand dry mud

 

[michel1949]

its funny hihihihi
i was a hand taper and did it in 3 operations
you guys with $3500.00 machine you do it with 4 operations
so far i am still learning and i am doing 3 operations tape with bazooka
2nd coat with the 10 inches set at 3 and finish with a 12 set at 4
and its decent
i bet i can do it faster by hand the the guys doing it in 4 operations so what is the use to have automatic tools if you lose time to go over and over