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In commercial its vertical, ive seen it many time hung vertical in homes/multi family, i guess it is possible he is right, codes do vary. But i suspect he's bullshiting a bit, it didnt look professionally hung.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
In commercial its vertical, ive seen it many time hung vertical in homes/multi family, i guess it is possible he is right, codes do vary. But i suspect he's bullshiting a bit, it didnt look professionally hung.
I suspect the same thing. He was angry when I told him I thought the hanging job was not that good and he said the guys who hung it have done this work for over 30 years and that they do museums and big commercial spaces, etc. He was adamant that it the job was done correctly so I am just going to let him do the finish and hope that it will be much better work. The one thing that bothers me about all the seams is knowing that there will be a lot of tape and I worry if he is not good with the finishing, that it could end up showing through in the future. I had that happen with a patch in my ceiling. We had a small patch that looked good after it was done (about 5 years ago) but about 6 months ago, I noticed the tape showing through and I assume it is a result of it not being done right.
 

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Yes he is right, vertical is only allowed in commercial settings where firecode is different. At least in my area it's that way. To be honest all the problems you posted can be fixed with drywall mud. Also you paid for a level 3 finish so you are definitely getting what you paid for. level 3 in one day is possible with quick drying joint compound.

Yeah the hang is bad and it's the contractors fault. You also have done something wrong. You hired a drywall company that does quality work at a premium, they gave you a reasonable bid then you tried to negotiate a lower price and agreed to a level 3 finish at a lower cost and expected them to still turn out a premium job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
Yes he is right, vertical is only allowed in commercial settings where firecode is different. At least in my area it's that way. To be honest all the problems you posted can be fixed with drywall mud. Also you paid for a level 3 finish so you are definitely getting what you paid for. level 3 in one day is possible with quick drying joint compound.

Yeah the hang is bad and it's the contractors fault. You also have done something wrong. You hired a drywall company that does quality work at a premium, they gave you a reasonable bid then you tried to negotiate a lower price and agreed to a level 3 finish at a lower cost and expected them to still turn out a premium job.
FYI - the bid went up, not down. But, are you suggesting that getting a level 3 finish vs 5 means that its ok to hang it poorly? Why? Level 5 is super, glass smooth and I have no walls in my house with this - I have the old plaster walls and the room the handyman did with drywall a few years ago, needed minimal finish and we were able to prime the drywall and paint it, which was possible because there was no damage, dents, gaps, or seams, much less bad seams. The reason he raised the bid was because I wanted the ceiling leveled (was out of level 3/4" in a corner) and it took them just a little over an hour to do that. But the bid went up $500 anyway.

And I was assuming that I would be getting a premium hanging job so that we could easily finish it like the other room. But that is not possible anymore and it isn't my fault. I was trying to negotiate not to add a huge amount to the bid for just adding the shims (which he did anyway) in exchange for simply giving me the same finish we have in the other room, which is all we need. But now that is not possible because of the way he hung it. And it isn't my fault if it will take them longer and have to do more than level 3 to fix it now.

Finally, what makes you assume he does "quality work" at a premium? He didn't do it for me so far so not sure why you assume this or think it is OK to hang a job so poorly regardless of level 3 or 5.
 

· Master Mud Monkey
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I'm not sure how you want to deal with this but it might be easier to just slip the drywall finishers an extra $100 and buy them a pizza to make the job look real good. Sounds easier than suing your contractor or getting super stressed about it but it's up to you at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I'm not sure how you want to deal with this but it might be easier to just slip the drywall finishers an extra $100 and buy them a pizza to make the job look real good. Sounds easier than suing your contractor or getting super stressed about it but it's up to you at this point.
Who says I am suing anyone? I have no time or energy for that. I am paying a lot of money for this job. More than double what I was expecting to pay but I was willing to pay more to get a really great job. That I am stressed is a result of the disappointing job and that I may have problems down the line. I did everything right. I found a licensed company, not some unlicensed guy to get a better price. I am paying for professional job and that is all I want.
 

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Regardless of code. Horizontal is a far better way to hang in a wood framed structure. There is nothing visible in the pictures you showed that precludes a good finisher from easily producing the finish you've agreed on. Taped seams don't just "show through" They were either there from the start and you didn't notice perhaps it was repainted to a higher sheen that revealed what was already there.
As for extra steps needed to do the job right due to the sloppy hanging job. No. As long as the drywall is well secured and in plane, none of the extreme closeups you showed are really all that important. Especially in a tiny room like a bathroom we are not talking about a huge difference to a finisher... minutes.
Things that would be trouble would be boards that are not well secured, cornerbeads that have the wrong geometry or boards that are hung out of plane with each other. None of that was visible in the pictures.

The real problem here is that you've lost trust in your contractor. (justified or not) Unfortunately you need to either trust him to finish the job or choose to go a different direction.
 

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what? no bead out of wack? lol look again! the one bead looks like they left the board hang out over the other corner board. if i went to bid that job id assume the homeowner did it and would turn it down. (no offence meant to OP) most likely nails and screws sticking out and loose boards, from my years experience. i have seen entire basements hung with scraps from dumpsters by homeowners. they try to use screws in corners and they bust up the rock when handling it. then when you laugh they say what? lol most just dont understand the nuances of the trade is all.

also from my experience, it not good to have commercial drywallers in any home setting. yes, go ahead and yell at me for that i dont care. lol i have worked in both settings and residential gets way better mud jobs. cant say about your codes but nobody hangs vertical in homes around here either. you dont hear "level whatever" much around here. a good finish job should be good enough unless its getting high gloss dark red paint or something like that. other than that a good finishers job should be just fine.

have you brought other finishers in to bid it and give you opinions? how about some pics of the bath from distance instead of just closeups of hacked spots. that would give a better image of the entire hang job. few hack spots are normal but an entire job of hacks and small pieces shows inexperience.

when this is over for you i would tell him about this site, so he can see others opinions of his type of quality. lol over the years i have seen this play out many times. i feel for you but its good lesson just the same.
 

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Regardless of code. Horizontal is a far better way to hang in a wood framed structure. There is nothing visible in the pictures you showed that precludes a good finisher from easily producing the finish you've agreed on. Taped seams don't just "show through" They were either there from the start and you didn't notice perhaps it was repainted to a higher sheen that revealed what was already there.
As for extra steps needed to do the job right due to the sloppy hanging job. No. As long as the drywall is well secured and in plane, none of the extreme closeups you showed are really all that important. Especially in a tiny room like a bathroom we are not talking about a huge difference to a finisher... minutes.
Things that would be trouble would be boards that are not well secured, cornerbeads that have the wrong geometry or boards that are hung out of plane with each other. None of that was visible in the pictures.

The real problem here is that you've lost trust in your contractor. (justified or not) Unfortunately you need to either trust him to finish the job or choose to go a different direction.
Did you see the bead? And with how they hung it im not so sure it glued or secured properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Regardless of code. Horizontal is a far better way to hang in a wood framed structure. There is nothing visible in the pictures you showed that precludes a good finisher from easily producing the finish you've agreed on. Taped seams don't just "show through" They were either there from the start and you didn't notice perhaps it was repainted to a higher sheen that revealed what was already there.
As for extra steps needed to do the job right due to the sloppy hanging job. No. As long as the drywall is well secured and in plane, none of the extreme closeups you showed are really all that important. Especially in a tiny room like a bathroom we are not talking about a huge difference to a finisher... minutes.
Things that would be trouble would be boards that are not well secured, cornerbeads that have the wrong geometry or boards that are hung out of plane with each other. None of that was visible in the pictures.

The real problem here is that you've lost trust in your contractor. (justified or not) Unfortunately you need to either trust him to finish the job or choose to go a different direction.
I am attaching a picture I just took of the patch that was done on my kitchen ceiling 5-6 years ago. I can promise you that I inspected it closely when it was done and there was no tape showing through at that time. And when it was painted, no tape showed through. And it was fine for several years but now, for some reason, the tape is showing. So, you are saying it is not possible but I know from my own experience that it is possible. Hence, why I have been stressed by the unprofessional hanging job done by a company that is charging me for a professional job. My concern isn't unfounded.

Brown Grey Tints and shades Pattern Electric blue
 

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the corner beads may be a huge concern.. insist on a drywall screw at least every 8". if not, there will be cracks... the corner bead, picture 10, needs to be pulled and reset. butcher!! i have finished similar, but i was not happy. some of the worst seems need to be prefilled with hot mud. a good finisher will make all good... hope the finisher is not the hanger.
 

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Did you see the bead? And with how they hung it im not so sure it glued or secured properly.
Yes, I looked at the photos closely. Look at those photos again, they are all extreme closeups of minor stuff. MAYBE the beads are out of whack, but there is nothing in those photos that show they are. Those shims, hackish as they may appear, show that the guy hanging it was at least working to get the geometry right. I've seen metal bead put on beautifully that couldn't be finished. You may not like staples but USG says crimp, nail, or staple: not drywall screws. None of the photos are pulled back far enough to see the screw pattern. So, maybe it wasn't secured properly, but there is no evidence.

I assumed the guy hanging was the apprentice, but the OP states he's a 30 year vet. I can see that as well. Look at those pictures again and picture a crusty 30 year vet getting the important stuff right and not caring at all about some dents in the drywall in between corner beads that will get filled with a 1/4" of mud. Or a 3/16" gap between boards that will get pre-filled. But spent time to get the bead in line. "Know the rules so you can break them" We don't know, He could also be an alcoholic on a hangover. But there is NOTHING in those photos that can't be dealt with in minutes by a quality guy. That doesn't mean there aren't flaws that we can't see, but all we have are those photos.

To the OP: In my experience either that mesh tape was always there, it was sanded down, the lighting or paint changed to reveal it or there is some magic in your house that i don't understand. I've seen mesh tape fail a bunch but i don't know how it could migrate through mud without cracking. If I'm wrong I'd love to learn something new.
In regards to this job, you've done what you can, you either need to fire them or trust them at this point. Like others have said, your best bet is to be nice to the guy who shows up to finish.

Merry Christmas to all and I hope it works out in the end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Yes, I looked at the photos closely. Look at those photos again, they are all extreme closeups of minor stuff. MAYBE the beads are out of whack, but there is nothing in those photos that show they are. Those shims, hackish as they may appear, show that the guy hanging it was at least working to get the geometry right. I've seen metal bead put on beautifully that couldn't be finished. You may not like staples but USG says crimp, nail, or staple: not drywall screws. None of the photos are pulled back far enough to see the screw pattern. So, maybe it wasn't secured properly, but there is no evidence.

I assumed the guy hanging was the apprentice, but the OP states he's a 30 year vet. I can see that as well. Look at those pictures again and picture a crusty 30 year vet getting the important stuff right and not caring at all about some dents in the drywall in between corner beads that will get filled with a 1/4" of mud. Or a 3/16" gap between boards that will get pre-filled. But spent time to get the bead in line. "Know the rules so you can break them" We don't know, He could also be an alcoholic on a hangover. But there is NOTHING in those photos that can't be dealt with in minutes by a quality guy. That doesn't mean there aren't flaws that we can't see, but all we have are those photos.

To the OP: In my experience either that mesh tape was always there, it was sanded down, the lighting or paint changed to reveal it or there is some magic in your house that i don't understand. I've seen mesh tape fail a bunch but i don't know how it could migrate through mud without cracking. If I'm wrong I'd love to learn something new.
In regards to this job, you've done what you can, you either need to fire them or trust them at this point. Like others have said, your best bet is to be nice to the guy who shows up to finish.

Merry Christmas to all and I hope it works out in the end.
Thank you. I am going to trust them to finish it and hope for the best and that I will be so happy with the job that it will be a joy to pay the cost, as I am very happy to pay more for quality work. I appreciate all the time you have taken to explain this to me. Merry Xmas and all the best for 2023
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
OK. The drywall mudding is done and sanded and all the problem areas have disappeared and the walls look great! It is a joy to pay for this job. Thank you to anyone who followed this and commented. Especially Robert whose comments were very helpful and correct about it all.
 
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