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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I hired a very drywall contractor to install drywall (purple board) in my bathroom and now I have a lot of concerns about the job and would like to get input from others on if this job is OK or not.

1. Seams everywhere and none are flush (1/8 - 1/4” off in some spots) and some have big gaps (up to 1/2” in a couple of spots). Is this what pros do and they will just add thick mud to even it out?
For the life of me, I don’t understand why they didn’t use full sheets to cover the walls so I would have no seams at all. And if you have a seam, why not put it at the top where not as noticeable?

2. I told them they could loosen more or remove the electrical outlets and switches (some were in just so we had light and power to work) to get the drywall in. Instead, they made a mess around the boxes and I check to see if the switches will cover over the gaps but they will not. Is this a normal thing for a drywall contractor to do? And how is it fixed?

3. The face paper was ripped off in 5 or 6 spots. I thought the paper was extremely important and couldn’t be damaged? How is this addressed to make sure the drywall is not compromised? This is in a bathroom and some of the torn paper is on the ceiling directly above the tub shower.

4. The corner beads are not straight and there are a lot of dents in the drywall. Again, I wonder how do they fix it to make it nice without thick mud? Is it OK to have mud that is up to 1/2” thick? We had a handyman do some drywall in a room a number of years ago and he did it along and there were no dents, no bad seams, nothing. So, I wanted to get the input from other pros on this job.

Thanks.

PS including some pictures of a few spots so you can see and more in the comments because the max allowed is 10 pictures in the post.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is that an outlet above a water line? (Third to last picture)
Yes, that is the water supply for the toilet and the outlet is for a bidet seat. And that will be changed to GFCI outlet after the mudding is done. The temporary we put in went bad and this was the only one we had. Can you tell me what you think of the drywall job?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
They did a real hack job. Id be embarrassed if one of my guys did that.
That is what I thought but I am not sure how to handle it with the owner of the company. This is a big drywall contractor and I hired them because I wanted a really good job, not a job that I thought I might get from a handyman. Can you tell me what he did wrong and what I should have him fix? And how do you fix this? Is it normal to have this many seams? Is OK to leave the paper torn off in spots and, if not, what needs to be done, etc? I am not a drywall pro so I don't want to jump to contusions over anything that is not out of line and fixable but I also don't want to get screwed over with a shit job when I am paying a lot of money. I feel sick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Id call them tell them you want a supervisor to come out, from the pics looks like there are unnecessary seams some of those gaps are questionable at best. Corner bead is a joke. Looks unprofessional all around. The missing paper happens thats not a issue. I'd get on the phone in the morning b4 they send someone out to tape it.
Thank you for replying. what should I tell them I want done? I have a tile guy starting in the morning and not sure what can be fixed after the tile. :( And want to add that the owner came out and he saw it all. I asked him about all the seams that are going to be in the most visible spot and why and his response was "I have been doing this for 35 years" and the gist was, "how dare you question me, since you are just a dumb homeowner and a woman at that."
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
One more thing I want to know besides what I need to ask him to do is, if he refuses, will the job be compromised? Are all these seams and dents in the drywall and horrible corners fixable with the mud?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ok. Understandable.
i mean the over cut boxes for the outlets is ok/ not the biggest deal. The gaps between the sheets it’s ehh,

ok, understandable. The boxes being over cut is not the biggest deal but I would still like to see a better job considering it’s all new drywall, not a remodel project with existing cut outlets. The gaps between sheets would be a problem for me since it’s in the bathroom you want the best seal against the humidity. The dents and the corner bead with shims??? Never seen that. What’s up with the ceiling sheet that meets the brown paper on the walls? Looks super damaged. Yes he might be a professional but the guy he left doing the job for him definitely isn’t. Overall I would have a few worlds with the contractor and ask for refund or to correct the issues before going any further. Mud, tape and paint can’t fix everything. Start the project the right way and things go smoother for everyone.
Good luck.
So grateful for the input I am getting here. Thank you to everyone. And now have more questions.

I was advised months ago, to have the final finish for the drywall done after the tile was in but this drywall contractor wanted to be completely finished before the tile started but I got him to agree to do it after the tile and the tile guy just started this morning. I asked the tile guy if I could have the drywall mudded and finished after he finishes the walls but before the cabinets are put in and floor so the cabinets won't be in the way and potentially damaged. I told the tile guy that the drywall contractor told me he only needed one day to do all the taping, mudding and finishing and the tile guy said not possible to do it right in just one day and would be at least 2 days. The tile guy also told me that nearly all the jobs he has done, the drywall is in and taped and jointed with one coat of mud and that they come and do the final coat and touchups after the tile. But the drywall contractor refused to give me that option. It was all or none before the tile.

Questions:
1. Is the this drywall contractor trying to rush the mudding/finishing, too? How long should it take to do it right? (They were here less than a day hanging and it sure shows)

2. Did the poor installation with all the seams (none of the seams are even - all off by 1/8"), gaps, damage and dents, corner bead issues and bad electric cut-outs, increase the labor for the taping and mudding? When we had a general contractor do drywall in another room a few years ago, he used full sheets, had almost no seams and those seams were even, no damage/dents so the taping and mudding was minimal. We were able to seal and prime the new drywall and paint over. It isn't level 5 smooth but it is new drywall smooth and looks great. But, I have no idea how what I have now can be made to look good without a lot of work?

3. Someone above said not everything can be fixed with mud and I would like to know what things I need to request be completely redone. And I pray it can be done after the tile because the tile guy is in there as I type this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I didn't see anything in the photos that can't be fixed with mud. We don't even know the scope of work or contract that you have with this guy. Is this a hang only job?
Hi Robert, the job was to shim the ceiling level, hang the drywall and to finish it ready for paint. His price was higher than the other options but I went with him because I wanted a really good job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
If the board is secure and basically in-plane, the only real consequence of sloppy hanging is more work for the finisher. So, unless you believe he's going to do a subpar job at finishing, then there is no problem yet. What level of finish did you agree on?

If you don't believe he will do a quality finish, then about your only recourse is to negotiate a break in the contract and wish him good luck and hire someone else to finish.
I would advise that you have a polite conversation with whoever shows up to do the finish work as to your expectations for the finished product as agreed to in the contract.
Ask the guy how he is going to fill the gaps, and any other concerns you have and listen to his answers.
You always have the right to end a working relationship with a contractor, but you don't have the right to get your money back or "win" financially. AKA: You can "fire" him, but you still owe him money. Ending a job midstream always includes some grey areas for a financial split: scheduling, materials, what percentage complete etc.
Right now, I don't see anything in the photos that precludes them from delivering a quality finished product, or give you grounds for breach of contract.

That said: if you are convinced that they aren't going to finish the job properly, you should absolutely cut ties and negotiate an end to the contract.

FYI: Here is a possible explanation from his end. (aside from being rude to you, which is just dumb) It's a big company as you say. they make their money at scale, doing whole houses/tracts of houses. This job is not really profitable for them and doesn't really fit in their business model. But takes the job anyway. Sends out the expendable apprentice to hang the job. Apprentice does a predictable job, but that doesn't concern him because he knows the experienced guy he sends out to finish it can fix anything the kid screwed up. Completely fails to consider the effect on morale on the customer from the shitty hanging job because he doesn't normally deal with customers in this situation.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me with an explanation that I think makes sense regarding who he sent to hang and that the shitty hanging job can be fixed with a good finisher. My goal is not to win financially or to start over with someone else. My goal is just to ensure I get what I am paying for, which is a professional drywall installation and finish so I don't have any issues with any of these seams or damage showing through in the future, or the drywall failing from the moisture in the bathroom because it was not sealed properly or something else that I am, as a novice, not aware.
In regards to the level of finish, he had put in level 5 in the first proposal and when I asked if he would shim where the ceiling was too high (we had crown molding with a over 3/4" gap and getting more crown molding that the tile guy will install) his price went way up (even though it took only 1 hour for them to do this extra step) and I told him that I am happy with level 3 finish, which is what we have in the room that the handyman did if it would lower the price a little and he agreed but I don't know if possible now. And I was saying level 3 based on the assumption that the drywall would have been hung the way it was in our other room without any seams or damage done. All of the other walls in my house are old plaster walls that don't have that ultra level 5 and the level 3 in the other room is plenty of smooth enough because the handyman who hung the drywall did a good job. But, now that this new drywall has been literally butchered, I am not sure what I need to request to ensure I never have any problems with the damage ever showing through. I had a patch on a ceiling that was done about 8 years ago in my kitchen and it was fine for a few years and then the tape started to show through and in my parent's home, drywall nails and seams were visible in some of their walls and this is what I want to avoid. Do I need to tell him he has to do level 4 or 5 now?
So, I would like to go to him politely but armed with information on what should be done to ensure that the damaged paper, seams, dents and gaps , etc. will all be addressed properly when it is finished and that he will send over a really good experienced finisher, no more beginners. Can you tell me if there are any extra steps needed to be done that wouldn't be normally needed if the hanging had been done right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I spoke to the contractor about my concerns with the seams and how it will be finished. He claims that the reason there are so many seams is because it is required by code to hang horizontally, not vertically, for sheer strength. And that the handyman (he was liscened as a general B contractor) did it wrong when he hung the sheets vertical. I looked online and can't find anything so wanted to ask if any of you have ever heard that it is not allowed to hang the 8' sheets verticle to avoid seams. ??
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
In commercial its vertical, ive seen it many time hung vertical in homes/multi family, i guess it is possible he is right, codes do vary. But i suspect he's bullshiting a bit, it didnt look professionally hung.
I suspect the same thing. He was angry when I told him I thought the hanging job was not that good and he said the guys who hung it have done this work for over 30 years and that they do museums and big commercial spaces, etc. He was adamant that it the job was done correctly so I am just going to let him do the finish and hope that it will be much better work. The one thing that bothers me about all the seams is knowing that there will be a lot of tape and I worry if he is not good with the finishing, that it could end up showing through in the future. I had that happen with a patch in my ceiling. We had a small patch that looked good after it was done (about 5 years ago) but about 6 months ago, I noticed the tape showing through and I assume it is a result of it not being done right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
Yes he is right, vertical is only allowed in commercial settings where firecode is different. At least in my area it's that way. To be honest all the problems you posted can be fixed with drywall mud. Also you paid for a level 3 finish so you are definitely getting what you paid for. level 3 in one day is possible with quick drying joint compound.

Yeah the hang is bad and it's the contractors fault. You also have done something wrong. You hired a drywall company that does quality work at a premium, they gave you a reasonable bid then you tried to negotiate a lower price and agreed to a level 3 finish at a lower cost and expected them to still turn out a premium job.
FYI - the bid went up, not down. But, are you suggesting that getting a level 3 finish vs 5 means that its ok to hang it poorly? Why? Level 5 is super, glass smooth and I have no walls in my house with this - I have the old plaster walls and the room the handyman did with drywall a few years ago, needed minimal finish and we were able to prime the drywall and paint it, which was possible because there was no damage, dents, gaps, or seams, much less bad seams. The reason he raised the bid was because I wanted the ceiling leveled (was out of level 3/4" in a corner) and it took them just a little over an hour to do that. But the bid went up $500 anyway.

And I was assuming that I would be getting a premium hanging job so that we could easily finish it like the other room. But that is not possible anymore and it isn't my fault. I was trying to negotiate not to add a huge amount to the bid for just adding the shims (which he did anyway) in exchange for simply giving me the same finish we have in the other room, which is all we need. But now that is not possible because of the way he hung it. And it isn't my fault if it will take them longer and have to do more than level 3 to fix it now.

Finally, what makes you assume he does "quality work" at a premium? He didn't do it for me so far so not sure why you assume this or think it is OK to hang a job so poorly regardless of level 3 or 5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I'm not sure how you want to deal with this but it might be easier to just slip the drywall finishers an extra $100 and buy them a pizza to make the job look real good. Sounds easier than suing your contractor or getting super stressed about it but it's up to you at this point.
Who says I am suing anyone? I have no time or energy for that. I am paying a lot of money for this job. More than double what I was expecting to pay but I was willing to pay more to get a really great job. That I am stressed is a result of the disappointing job and that I may have problems down the line. I did everything right. I found a licensed company, not some unlicensed guy to get a better price. I am paying for professional job and that is all I want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Regardless of code. Horizontal is a far better way to hang in a wood framed structure. There is nothing visible in the pictures you showed that precludes a good finisher from easily producing the finish you've agreed on. Taped seams don't just "show through" They were either there from the start and you didn't notice perhaps it was repainted to a higher sheen that revealed what was already there.
As for extra steps needed to do the job right due to the sloppy hanging job. No. As long as the drywall is well secured and in plane, none of the extreme closeups you showed are really all that important. Especially in a tiny room like a bathroom we are not talking about a huge difference to a finisher... minutes.
Things that would be trouble would be boards that are not well secured, cornerbeads that have the wrong geometry or boards that are hung out of plane with each other. None of that was visible in the pictures.

The real problem here is that you've lost trust in your contractor. (justified or not) Unfortunately you need to either trust him to finish the job or choose to go a different direction.
I am attaching a picture I just took of the patch that was done on my kitchen ceiling 5-6 years ago. I can promise you that I inspected it closely when it was done and there was no tape showing through at that time. And when it was painted, no tape showed through. And it was fine for several years but now, for some reason, the tape is showing. So, you are saying it is not possible but I know from my own experience that it is possible. Hence, why I have been stressed by the unprofessional hanging job done by a company that is charging me for a professional job. My concern isn't unfounded.

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Yes, I looked at the photos closely. Look at those photos again, they are all extreme closeups of minor stuff. MAYBE the beads are out of whack, but there is nothing in those photos that show they are. Those shims, hackish as they may appear, show that the guy hanging it was at least working to get the geometry right. I've seen metal bead put on beautifully that couldn't be finished. You may not like staples but USG says crimp, nail, or staple: not drywall screws. None of the photos are pulled back far enough to see the screw pattern. So, maybe it wasn't secured properly, but there is no evidence.

I assumed the guy hanging was the apprentice, but the OP states he's a 30 year vet. I can see that as well. Look at those pictures again and picture a crusty 30 year vet getting the important stuff right and not caring at all about some dents in the drywall in between corner beads that will get filled with a 1/4" of mud. Or a 3/16" gap between boards that will get pre-filled. But spent time to get the bead in line. "Know the rules so you can break them" We don't know, He could also be an alcoholic on a hangover. But there is NOTHING in those photos that can't be dealt with in minutes by a quality guy. That doesn't mean there aren't flaws that we can't see, but all we have are those photos.

To the OP: In my experience either that mesh tape was always there, it was sanded down, the lighting or paint changed to reveal it or there is some magic in your house that i don't understand. I've seen mesh tape fail a bunch but i don't know how it could migrate through mud without cracking. If I'm wrong I'd love to learn something new.
In regards to this job, you've done what you can, you either need to fire them or trust them at this point. Like others have said, your best bet is to be nice to the guy who shows up to finish.

Merry Christmas to all and I hope it works out in the end.
Thank you. I am going to trust them to finish it and hope for the best and that I will be so happy with the job that it will be a joy to pay the cost, as I am very happy to pay more for quality work. I appreciate all the time you have taken to explain this to me. Merry Xmas and all the best for 2023
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
OK. The drywall mudding is done and sanded and all the problem areas have disappeared and the walls look great! It is a joy to pay for this job. Thank you to anyone who followed this and commented. Especially Robert whose comments were very helpful and correct about it all.
 
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