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Mud Manipulator
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That is a really good point Tim . It takes good stregth and lots of conditioning to run automatic tools all day long - day in and day out. Even the flat boxes and corner boxes takes strength and conditioning to use properly. AFWIW these tools really put the mud on faster than by hand. You still need to know how to manipulate the mud to make it look good with the least amount of sanding afterwards. So yes anybody can be trained to run these tools , but you cant do this trade unless you know how to use a knife or trowel properly and have the strength and stamina to do so.
 

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Very well stated taper71. Can you imagine doing it all by hand again without the tools. Kinda frightening to think about. I like the tools.
 

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anybody try the newest appli-tech system. A sub finisher is doing a small 190 sht commercial job with it and is very fast. With the bead coater and box he coated 60 some beads and all the flats in 2 hours and 15min. Try that with regular boxes or by hand. And more importantly it looked good. imo still a little too expensive of a system but in the hands of some one who knows how to use it very nice. I wish most guys could finish that job in 4 days. He taped it fri afternoon and sanded it today. vn
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Holy! Sorry i thought this was some new thing out. lol I just heard about them but then again i have not been tryin to find one. Can any one give me a ball park figure on the all said and done $?
 

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Holy! Sorry i thought this was some new thing out. lol I just heard about them but then again i have not been tryin to find one. Can any one give me a ball park figure on the all said and done $?
6,000.00 will get you just about everything. But they have one set that will cost double that if you go with the setup that takes a Mark V airless sprayer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I just watched a demo DVD on it. Man it is fast. Same idea just alot faster with this tool. I am looking into it threw Tim-bra Mart.
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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anybody try the newest appli-tech system. A sub finisher is doing a small 190 sht commercial job with it and is very fast. With the bead coater and box he coated 60 some beads and all the flats in 2 hours and 15min. Try that with regular boxes or by hand. And more importantly it looked good. imo still a little too expensive of a system but in the hands of some one who knows how to use it very nice. I wish most guys could finish that job in 4 days. He taped it fri afternoon and sanded it today. vn
It is too bad that so much technology has been lost, in the 70's the standard was 100 sheets a day for a tool finisher.

jdl
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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Holy! Sorry i thought this was some new thing out. lol I just heard about them but then again i have not been tryin to find one. Can any one give me a ball park figure on the all said and done $?
It will cost double the amount that you can get a complete set of automatic tools for. It best supports a crew, and it will take considerable time to become skilled with it as it pumps the mud out. That aspect eliminates most of the feel that a tool finisher could quickly develop.

The Aplatech system is more an application system then a finishing system. The MarkV is about $3,000 more then what you need for a pump.

They are available used since many single guys give up on them quickly, it is a bulky system for a guy and his young apprentice. The system is over ten years old and the company is now owned by Ames.

jdl
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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So they are worth the money you are saying?
If they were made with gold, they would be worth the money. Ames rental is like throwing money away these days though. You can own a full set now for what Ames would charge in 6 months rental.

Not near as fragile as Ames would have you believe either, I rented for 20 years, and then in '94 I bought a set since Ames got up to $350 a month. I put that set through $500,000 worth of work in 9 years, and then sold it for $2,000. I doubt that I spent more then $300 on maintenence and replacement parts in that time.

I don't mean to insult anyone that may believe that hand finishing is a higher skill, but, a drywall finisher without automatic tools is like a carpenter without any power tools.

The skill set for a tool finisher becomes the ability to produce high quality work with efficiency and without waste of time or effort. There is no way that any hand system can compete with a tool finisher that has taken his skills beyond mud application, to a high degree of ability in extracting the maximum finish quality from his tools.

That skill set will always be in demand and always pay maximum. If you are in a high-demand market, acquiring that skill set will reward you tremendously.

jdl
 

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I think he forgot this is a professional site. The DIY crowd would eat this stuff up.
 

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First off 100 sheets a day for a finisher to coat is very slow. My hand guys coat 200 a day. But if you read my post closely you will that it was under 3 hours and it was almost 200 sheets and a bunch of beads. Second the system he used is new. It is all by air and is not big and bulky. you only drag around the hose and the current boxes you have now. It uses a basic taping tool but then has a nice bead coater and a thing that puts the mud on for no-coat beads doing both sides at once. even in the hands of a novice it is very fast. The entire system cost about 12,000. a little to pricy to me. A finisher that used to do some work for us has been hired on as a salesman. He works for the company and its called apli-tech(sp). It is not owned by ames. He goes all over the country demonstrating the tool and has only had it in his hands for about 5 months tops. He is not some rocket scientist. Not actually all that bright. so if he can get on to it and get fast. Anyone can. enough apli-tech sales. Like I said great product- too expensive. And there is none of the new systems on e-bay. You can get the sprayer thru all wall but I believe there is some things that you would have to buy to connect it to the set you would have to buy from apli-tech. I did not buy the system yet. I dont think it will be great for normal houses. Its application is really large commercial where you have a 1000 stand ups. Here you could fly and make it pay almost for itself. In markets where labor rates are driven down by illegals forget it.
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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First off 100 sheets a day for a finisher to coat is very slow. My hand guys coat 200 a day. But if you read my post closely you will that it was under 3 hours and it was almost 200 sheets and a bunch of beads. Second the system he used is new. It is all by air and is not big and bulky. you only drag around the hose and the current boxes you have now. It uses a basic taping tool but then has a nice bead coater and a thing that puts the mud on for no-coat beads doing both sides at once. even in the hands of a novice it is very fast. The entire system cost about 12,000. a little to pricy to me. A finisher that used to do some work for us has been hired on as a salesman. He works for the company and its called apli-tech(sp). It is not owned by ames. He goes all over the country demonstrating the tool and has only had it in his hands for about 5 months tops. He is not some rocket scientist. Not actually all that bright. so if he can get on to it and get fast. Anyone can. enough apli-tech sales. Like I said great product- too expensive. And there is none of the new systems on e-bay. You can get the sprayer thru all wall but I believe there is some things that you would have to buy to connect it to the set you would have to buy from apli-tech. I did not buy the system yet. I dont think it will be great for normal houses. Its application is really large commercial where you have a 1000 stand ups. Here you could fly and make it pay almost for itself. In markets where labor rates are driven down by illegals forget it.
I said, finish 100 sheets a day, 500 sheets per work week. You'd be surprised at what is owned by Ames, and that company that owns Ames.

What you describe about apla-tech is my point, it is more an application system, then it is a finish system, it would take much time and dedication for an operator to run it to the same level as a skilled tool man. Like the auto tools, anyone can get the mud on the wall pretty quickly. The skill of the drywall finisher is in putting the mud on the wall in a manner that it requires less additional work. However he does it, without this skill being developed, he is a mud applicator, more then he is a finisher.

I did compete with illegals for 25 years, they do not drive rates down.

In the past 15 years, they have pretty much doubled labor rates by driving professionals out of the trade. In 1990, the national average cost for finishing drywall was $5.35 per 12' bd. How much has it been driven down?

jdl
 
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