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We getting into using taping tools like boxes bazooka all that good stuff, we have a 12" and 10" box Now Im gussing u would use the 12" box for your buttjoints and the 10" for ur factory joints, Im just looking for validation on my question. and any taping tool tips that would help me use these tools better. Thanks Dennis THUNDER CONSTRUCTION
 

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other guy
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Hey, Dennis.
There are people who do it that way. But alot of folks use the boxes in layers. There's a dozen deciding factors to determine the way you use your boxes. Things such as the quality you are aiming for, whether you use a back-blocking device, whether you use only drying compounds, or a mix of drying and setting, how straight your framing is (in-house/subcontract & new/remodel) etc. Most guys are subs doing remodeling (they swear by layering.) You have to learn what's appropriate for you.
 

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Depends on how many coats you're going to do, but at my company we usually came through on the top coat with a 10" box for all the seams, including butt-joints.

On the Skim coat, we would go over everything with the 12" box and split the butt-joints.
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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We getting into using taping tools like boxes bazooka all that good stuff, we have a 12" and 10" box Now Im gussing u would use the 12" box for your buttjoints and the 10" for ur factory joints, Im just looking for validation on my question. and any taping tool tips that would help me use these tools better. Thanks Dennis THUNDER CONSTRUCTION
Hey Dennis,

The 10" and 12" are the most popular combination, 10" for first coat and 12" for skim. Run the 10" with mud as thick as you can comfortably run, and set your dial at 2 or 3. Set on 1 for butts, and run down the middle or to the low side. Try to run the box with pressure focused on the blade and you will learn to run it well enough to not wipe down behind it.

Run the 12" over that with mud slightly thinner and a dial setting at 3 or 4. Split the butts on 2. You can find some video on YouTube here:


jdl
 

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Mud Manipulator
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Hey Dennis,

The 10" and 12" are the most popular combination, 10" for first coat and 12" for skim. Run the 10" with mud as thick as you can comfortably run, and set your dial at 2 or 3. Set on 1 for butts, and run down the middle or to the low side. Try to run the box with pressure focused on the blade and you will learn to run it well enough to not wipe down behind it.

Run the 12" over that with mud slightly thinner and a dial setting at 3 or 4. Split the butts on 2. You can find some video on YouTube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpy_rfAhoLM

jdl
If I set my 10" box at 2 or 3 it crowns too much. A good test for your boxes is to do a run down a flat. Wipe behind it with a 10 or 12" knife, if you are pulling off too much mud then adjust your box acordingly. Sometimes you will actually have to adjust the brass blade holder itself or mess with the bolts on the spring tension. Best done on a slow week.
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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If I set my 10" box at 2 or 3 it crowns too much. A good test for your boxes is to do a run down a flat. Wipe behind it with a 10 or 12" knife, if you are pulling off too much mud then adjust your box acordingly. Sometimes you will actually have to adjust the brass blade holder itself or mess with the bolts on the spring tension. Best done on a slow week.
Several manufacturers are "pre-bowing" the brass blade holder these days, this typically leaves more crown then what is desirable at any given setting. If going to 4 and 5 on the dial does not put enough tension on the blade, then you should turn the adjusting nuts up on the tension bolts. Always take care to adjust these evenly.

For ultimate flat flats, with the least time and work, switch to the 7" and 10" combination, you will be shocked at the quality for the quickness.

jdl
 

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Following behind with a 10" or 12" knife is the way we do it (like taper 71 suggests) it also gets rid of that marshmellow texture. I know someone will say put more water in it. It just shrinks too much to get the proper fill. As for butt joints we run the 10" box on the fill side on tape coat. And then build out accordingly.
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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Following behind with a 10" or 12" knife is the way we do it (like taper 71 suggests) it also gets rid of that marshmellow texture. I know someone will say put more water in it. It just shrinks too much to get the proper fill. As for butt joints we run the 10" box on the fill side on tape coat. And then build out accordingly.
Wiping down behind flat boxes is a good deal if you have time to kill and like hanging around the job doing make-work operations. I wouldn't say put more water in the mud, but I would say to leave your knife in the bucket so that you could learn to run a flatbox well.

Running a flatbox is one thing, finishing with one takes some technique that you can never acquire while you wipe down behind it.

jdl
 

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Mud Manipulator
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Wiping down behind flat boxes is a good deal if you have time to kill and like hanging around the job doing make-work operations. I wouldn't say put more water in the mud, but I would say to leave your knife in the bucket so that you could learn to run a flatbox well.

Running a flatbox is one thing, finishing with one takes some technique that you can never acquire while you wipe down behind it.

jdl

Im sorry please forgive our limited knowledge of finishing. I now realize that you are far superior than any of us here and look forward to you teaching us the best way to do our trade. Please continue to dazzle us with your vast experience. I assume that there is no need to sand your work as well?
 

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1wallboardsman's right. You should be able to finish with a box that's the way I was taught. No you shouldn't have to sand your work, if you do it's only a couple of spots.
The same goes for touch up...When I taped we didn't get the floor dirty either, and our cloths where clean. But that's the way I taught.
 

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Hey no offense here. The truth is boxes are great to use. Following up with a knife is actually a time saver. Would you run a banjo without some one following. I know it's totaly different but the point is the same. You could do it but the next step becomes more difficult. You save more time on touch up later. I touch up with a clip light trust me when i tell you there is a difference. Especialy if you finish with light weight, not so much with mid-weight. The bottom line is i don't care what your technique is the material sits the way it sits. I don't have to follow up, the results are better when i do. I'm ten years on the box. My opinion is follow up. Respectfully do what you feel is best. If your way works for you than go for it.
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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Im sorry please forgive our limited knowledge of finishing. I now realize that you are far superior than any of us here and look forward to you teaching us the best way to do our trade. Please continue to dazzle us with your vast experience. I assume that there is no need to sand your work as well?
Don't be ridiculous, every job could use a half hour brush off on the back end. I'm shocked that the Canadians that used to winter in S. Fla didn't teach you any of this. How many good tool men have you got in Alberta these days??

jdl
 

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Ultimate Wallboardsman
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Hey no offense here. The truth is boxes are great to use. Following up with a knife is actually a time saver. Would you run a banjo without some one following. I know it's totaly different but the point is the same. You could do it but the next step becomes more difficult. You save more time on touch up later. I touch up with a clip light trust me when i tell you there is a difference. Especialy if you finish with light weight, not so much with mid-weight. The bottom line is i don't care what your technique is the material sits the way it sits. I don't have to follow up, the results are better when i do. I'm ten years on the box. My opinion is follow up. Respectfully do what you feel is best. If your way works for you than go for it.
I'm 35 years on the box, same with the taper, so I wouldn't be using a banjo. I learned the trade back when it was competitive and you had to do the work well, and make a living doing it for $1.92 per board. Nobody would be so kind as to pencil whip you, they would just say that your job isn't ready and if you asked what is wrong with it, they told you that you were the finisher, you figure it out and fix it. They didn't care if it took you another week. Of course, once you were done, you were still fired for taking so long.

Then there were the guys that you had to compete with for work, they would finish 500 sheets in 40 hours and not tell you a damn thing about how they did it. Most of that knowledge is lost now.

jdl
 

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Several manufacturers are "pre-bowing" the brass blade holder these days, this typically leaves more crown then what is desirable at any given setting. If going to 4 and 5 on the dial does not put enough tension on the blade, then you should turn the adjusting nuts up on the tension bolts. Always take care to adjust these evenly.

For ultimate flat flats, with the least time and work, switch to the 7" and 10" combination, you will be shocked at the quality for the quickness.

jdl
I have to say I agree 100% with your methods of boxing. I also use the 7" and 10" boxing system. I will use a 10" and 12" on commercial though.
 

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Mud Manipulator
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Don't be ridiculous, every job could use a half hour brush off on the back end. I'm shocked that the Canadians that used to winter in S. Fla didn't teach you any of this. How many good tool men have you got in Alberta these days??

jdl
We dont have many. I think you better come up here and teach us igloo dwellers the way.
 

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WW1 is here. There is no right way boys. There is only what works best for you and the people that are paying you. I dont care what my subs do as long as it is flat and smooth in the end. My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door.

When hiring anyone with expierence I listen to all of their ideas before shutting them down. I have learned a few things over the years keeping my ears open also. The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself. Just my two cents.

Nate
 

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This reminds me of a guy years ago here in my hometown. Said he was the "Premier taper in town" he said he was so good in fact that he didn't even get mud on the wheels of his tube when taping. My reply was I bet you dont need to wipe your a55 when you take a poo poo either. Takes all kinds, always has, always will.

Nate
 

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Mud Manipulator
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Its not WW1. I just really have a hard time with the guys who think they are right and have to argue the point till there blue in the face. I have no doubt that 1wallboardman has alot of knowledge and is very experienced in this trade. What I have a problem with is the arrogance. I wipe behind my boxes for the same reason that butcherman stated. I spent years not wiping behind the boxes because I can finish without having too, but my experience now is that I have way less sanding and the job looks way better when I do wipe and that saves me lots of time. At the end of the day the job looks like the way it is supposed too, I have made money and the customer is happy.
 

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My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door
The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself

Which one is it? I don't understand, everyone tapes different, if you can't tape the same way or as good as some one else there way's wrong. Why bash them? Why can't people you hire have ideas, they might be good ideas, that's just foolish. I guess I think a lot differently than most, but ideas sometimes translates in to saving time, money and a better job. Thanks
 
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