Framing/Drywall Estimating Courses.

lenncad said:

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there are any classes/courses to learn how to estimate framing/drywall/acoustical ceilings. I've been estimating for precast (GFRC/GFRG) manufacturer for quite a while, and I just think its time to move on to bigger and better things. I don't think anybody hires entry level estimators, they want someone with some experience. If anyone can help me with this it would be appreciated. Thanks.

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No offense....

But do companies REALLY need estimators anymore????????

times like NOW?????

I always felt an estimator was for owners that basically got too lazy to calculate and measure their own plans.

Lenncad, unless you are applying to BIG construction firms (and you most likely are, being from Vegas), to put it lightly, there's not a TON of justification for your position right now in today's economy.

In California at least, i've heard tons of stories of estimators being one of the first to go during this industry slump, and locally I can tell you that I have at least 1 - 2 laid off estimators per month looking to apply at my business.

And I jokingly, but sincerely tell them "i wish there were enough plans coming in for you to estimate, but I can handle it on my own for now."

As far as drywall estimating, there is no school -- and if there IS a school, you're wasting your money. Drywall is one of the easiest trades to estimate.

Sorry I'm not that much help Lenncad, but in all honesty, if you're looking to make a career out of 'estimating,' you might want to find another profession.

Thanks for the input. Some comments are discouraging but I do appreciate the honesty. I have asked framing and drywall estimators to help me learn but only when they have time. So far no one has gotten back to me. That's why I wondering if they offered any courses. I thought thought this would be the next best thing.

Custom Drywall Svc.>>>> Thanks for being honest. As far as estimating being a career choice. I think more of it as a spring board. If I do learn framing/drywall estimating and do it for a couple years, I may think about opening my own company or even land a job with higher pay. Right now I'm a GFRC/GFRG estimator/CAD designer for a manufacturer. I've been doing this for quite some time and I just don't see a bright future in this trade. I see more buildings being built more modern looking and I feel that they are no longer going to need this product. How much GFRG parts have you ordered lately? (Column Covers, Access Panels, Moldings etc.)

Stinger>>> I don't about the medical field. I have a lot of friends that are nurses and doctors they are cutting hours even doing layoffs (Kaisar Permenante Hospitals). I've been hearing that doctors don't want that bill to pass.

Stinger said:

Hey Lenncad, you could check out RS Means. They used to offer training courses and seminars for estimating. Seeing how you live in LV there's a good probability they host them in your area. Or maybe ITT Tech if you think you might be up for more school? And your right on the reform bill. My mom is an MD and believes that if they would stop hospitals from gouging they won't need reform. Like when they give someone a shot that cost them $6.00 for supply and bill the insurance co $600.00! No exaggeration.

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Commercial estimators are what makes or breaks a commercial company.
You have to know a lot of framing and ceiling systems and various types of drywall.
You have to be able to know when you can substitute different systems than what's called for on the drawings. Ceilings that are drawn with say, 3 5/8" metal studs can be substituted with RidgidX in some instances dropping your costs for a large job.
You have to know the companies historical production rates in every aspect of the job as well. These numbers cannot be taught as it takes a bit of experience to know when you can substitute building methods in order to create a competitive bid.

I have an associates degree in drafting and design and am in my 4th year working for my bachelors in construction management. Programs such as Revit track your materials down to the screws which makes for an easy material count but this is done on an entirely different level.

The best estimators in the commercial world are your old journeymen that have left the field for the safety of the office. You need at least 10 years working in the field on large commercial projects to get knowledgeable in all the different systems and production rates. There is no easy way.

I've worked in all areas of drywall. Worked for my Dad's drywall company while I was in high school and then later joined the painters union as a taper. I also joined the carpenters union as a sheet rocker. I also learned steel stud framing and layout. I was one of those guys that always kept a record of how much work I did in 8 hrs. Later in my career I moved to estimating. I was trained by a guy that was 30 years my senior. It wasn't long before I was one of the top estimators in my area. I had the advantage of field experience to know what production rates to apply to most any situation. When I designed my estimating software I designed it the way we do things in the field. First we do the framing then the rocking and then the taping. So my software follows the logical steps that we use in the field. You don't have to be a business man to be an estimator, but there are many things that you do need to know from the company that you're estimating for. As Zendik said, you need their production rates which you can fine tune based on your knowledge. You will need to know their payroll burden and also what percentage of overhead and profit mark up they want to use. Those are the things most companies accounting department will know how to come up with. The more work a company does the less mark up they need on overhead. This can give you an advantage in the estimating if you are half way into a business year and you have all your overhead costs covered for the year. I wish I'd taken some business training, because some of the companies that I worked for didn't have a clue, but did well because the owner had the gift of gab and could close a deal. I love estimating, but never wanted to be an accountant. I like to leave that to the bean counters. If you are a drywaller with good experience in the field and basic computer skills my software will be easy for you to adapt to. No matter how good you are in drywall, get yourself a good accountant or bookkeeper. We all know that the market is soft and having a full time estimator may not be possible now. That's why I think my software is a great tool at this time. You will be able to complete more bids and it will help you keep your bids consistent.

Good luck to all my drywall friends out there.

FabFour