Curing/drying time??

52020 Views 45 Replies 17 Participants Last post by endo_alley, 1 mo ago

cazna

Discussion Starter · Jul 26, 2010 (Edited)

Just wondering what people think about drying times of compounds, Ever noticed the tapered edge line showing through after a few months later under some down lights mounted to the wall??

I have a feeling it takes 30 days or so to fully cure and stop shrinking, depending on how thinned it is and type of mud of course.

What about the wall board, if its made a week before its hung and taped is this still curing?? Our board seems to be getting quite soft.

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rhardman

· #2 · Jul 26, 2010

That's an interesting topic.

On walls or lids where lighting was a possible issue I always went overboard hitting the first coat with a hotmud/plaster of paris mix and then skimmed everything out by hand real wide with AP then Sof Top (Hamiltons). Always turned out well but took a lot more time to do.

Looking forward to what other guys think about this... :thumbup:

2buckcanuck

· #3 · Jul 26, 2010

your dead on the money with curing,drywall the most important to be dry,good builders in our area use electric heat (driest heat) and dehumidifiers even in the summer (very humid here) as soon as they start hanging.mud shrinks tiny bit ,heard it takes 3 months to cure.hot muds worst ,sure they set in 20 minutes or so but take years to cure ,done warranty work before (20 years ago)where you go back to a house one year later,the hot mud (sheetrock)would shrink on the flats leaving a line to fill,and you could see the holes on the metal bead ,that bad!!
drywall most Important though,here's one story why!!!!!
15 years ago did a house in Sarnia (contracted it),kept telling the builder to give me heat in basement or dehumidifier (not my job to control the environment or weather) ,mister builder cheap and it's raining most of the week.Finish job.One week later calls me and sayz there's a butt in ceiling in basement that needs fixing(there's that i don't make money word {fix})turns out every joint and screw in basement needs another coat,you can see the tape,BUT upstairs every thing perfect (of coarse) he sayz I cheated on the coating in basement,try explaining the upstairs was more ventilated and drywall was dry while basement was not (plus bricky was using a big fan while working on fire place,which helps)He knew I was right ,even home owner knew too,but tells me to fix it or i wont work for him again,i choose not to (surprize you cazna) he's long gone ,I'm still working !
wet drywall affects curing of muds the most,other things like truss lift,studs shrinking,house settling,bad hanging jobs make our jobs look like **** too !

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cazna

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 26, 2010 (Edited)

Thanks for that guys, it reasures me a bit, heres why i started this post.

The house im on i have taped the joins with sheetrock taping compound, then boxed it with a 10 then 12 using sheetrock total, sanded, then rolled and hand skimmed the walls and ceilings twice, radius 360 hand sanded it all down smooth as glass under twin 500watt halogens.

Painters have done there bit, electricans have fitted out the hallway with wall lights that shine up and down the walls. everything was looking great i was feeling so proud i felt it was my best work i could possiably do.

Anyway this house has concrete floor with water pipes and a big heat pump to heat the water to heat the floor and so on.
They have fired this up and warmed the house up and now in the hallway under the wall light you can see the line of the tape

Devistated would be an under statement, im gutted, your replys have confermed my thought, its shrunk back into the taper, after all that work this happens

We dont use heaters or dehumids here, no one has them and it costs a lot hire.

So how can i get a perfect level 5 finish then, i thought i had it sorted but it needs ages to dry, this house has been built fast, the owners sold there last place and have demanded a date to move in.

The things against me have been the rush, weathers been around 8 degrees which is not to bad, those

wall lights and the wall paint is a little on the shiny side, if it had different lights and a less shiny paint it would look a lot better, but it dosent.

Im plastering and painting out my next house and thankfully its smaller, they are having hanging lights and wall lights and its a house on a hill that gets bombed with sun, i dont want this to happen again

Been at it for 13 years had the add join do this but its been in areas that has not been a concern, these new wall lights are becoming popular, and people are expecting perfect walls more now, its a bit unrealistic givin these things can happen to you.

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2buckcanuck

· #5 · Jul 27, 2010

man, I can tell your a contractor that really cares,here's a few things that might help from a old fart that use to contract (now I sub)
- your mud boxes should state minimum temperature to work with,ours say 10 c,recommended 20 c or 60 f, I know ,they still may not supply heat etc... But you warned them (makes you feel little bit better if the sh*t hits the fan.
-to know for sure the drywall was moist when you taped it, and it dried out when they turned the heat on,push on the screws a bit,if they move then drywall was too moist,or if it looks like they need another coat is evidence too.
if it just looks like your joints are affected, quit using sheet rock,not joking ,sheet rock has it purposes but not for prefilling.
-prefill with straight stiff mud if you can,if you half to push use durabond instead ,it cures faster and forces that flat tape to dry quicker if you want to coat it the same day.Or try plaster of paris/lime, mix it with your mud,turns it pink and you have 5 minutes to get it on the wall ,(just for those small jobs)
-If your a hawk and trowel guy you can try veneer plaster for those small jobs ,but its weather sensitive http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Blueboard_and_Veneer_Plaster-Plaster_Walls-A1484.html
sounds like your doing perfect work,you might half to invest in some heaters or fans,average temperature of 8 c is what got you on this job,and dont use propane heat either ,should be a warning on your mud boxes about that too.
bottom line sounds like you did nothing wrong,just that word sheet rock scares me(need lots of heat when using it),I got horror stories from using that stuff

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cazna

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 27, 2010

I was a hawk and trowel guy for 10 years using hot mud for first two coats then all purpose for the final, but got tired of pushing it all by hand so started on the auto tools a few years ago.

Tryed the ES210, figured i could tape up with that but it was a hassel, one day it set after 90min solid in 2min flat, i had no time to get it out of my tools and it set solid, try getting that out of a gooseneck.

So then came the pemix stuff, tryed most of the sheetrock now, really liked the taping compound, runs and tapes up very well and the total boxes well, and its nice to sand.

I have noticed this shrinking before but this is just a bad one, to cold, house built to fast, plastered then painted then heated and wall lights, and the house is getting shaking up by vibrating rollers in the drive and the section next door getting preped up with diggers trucks and rollers.

Your heard some not good stuff about sheetrock?? like what??
We have not much choice here for compounds, Sheetrock, Hamiltions,Gib thats about it, Gib is the local made stuff and is hopeless for auto tools and cost more than the others, we have easy finish which seems to get a bad rap but it seems ok to me.

We have one type of wallboard which is made here called Gib, but some Knaf and baier seems to be showing up but ony in 1200mmx2400mm.

Its crazy, the board is made then stacked then sent to the hardware stores, kept in cold storage areas, then of to the job then hung which is the first time it gets any air around it and it might only be a week old, then i had to plasterer straight away, then paint, its a wonder it dosnt play up more, the timber frame is still moving and drying and we are expected to produce perfect walls, Huh, Yeah right.

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Capt-sheetrock

· #7 · Jul 27, 2010

cazna said:
I was a hawk and trowel guy for 10 years using hot mud for first two coats then all purpose for the final, but got tired of pushing it all by hand so started on the auto tools a few years ago.

Tryed the ES210, figured i could tape up with that but it was a hassel, one day it set after 90min solid in 2min flat, i had no time to get it out of my tools and it set solid, try getting that out of a gooseneck.

So then came the pemix stuff, tryed most of the sheetrock now, really liked the taping compound, runs and tapes up very well and the total boxes well, and its nice to sand.

I have noticed this shrinking before but this is just a bad one, to cold, house built to fast, plastered then painted then heated and wall lights, and the house is getting shaking up by vibrating rollers in the drive and the section next door getting preped up with diggers trucks and rollers.

Your heard some not good stuff about sheetrock?? like what??
We have not much choice here for compounds, Sheetrock, Hamiltions,Gib thats about it, Gib is the local made stuff and is hopeless for auto tools and cost more than the others, we have easy finish which seems to get a bad rap but it seems ok to me.

We have one type of wallboard which is made here called Gib, but some Knaf and baier seems to be showing up but ony in 1200mmx2400mm.

Its crazy, the board is made then stacked then sent to the hardware stores, kept in cold storage areas, then of to the job then hung which is the first time it gets any air around it and it might only be a week old, then i had to plasterer straight away, then paint, its a wonder it dosnt play up more, the timber frame is still moving and drying and we are expected to produce perfect walls, Huh, Yeah right.

Man, your beating yourself up too much.

You got remember that enough light thrown at a wall will show some stuff.

We are finishing drywall, not painting cars.

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2buckcanuck

· #8 · Jul 27, 2010

the only good thing I hear about sheet rock is...................................................I cant think of nothing

I sorta remember you saying you deal with a small town,Im starting to see a pattern that the smaller the population base a taper deals with the more head aches they get,the larger the population base less head aches ,guys talk of sub contracting,union work and cool tools and materials to deal with,here in Ontario lots of land and population,just a theory mind you ?
now I half to google map New Zealand ,see what your dealing with there

cazna

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 27, 2010 (Edited)

I am in a small town, and your right, I think in citys there is less accountablity for what you do and in smaller areas most people know someone who knows someone.

something up and the whole town knows.

Maybe i am beating myself up capt but to do better and figure stuff out is what gets me out of bed, I just enjoy the challange.

And i think you would find if you came here we and behind the times 2buck, McDusty who posts on here moved from canada to here found it all a bit backwards, i think hes fled back to canada now.

2buckcanuck

· #10 · Jul 27, 2010

Capt-sheetrock said:
Man, your beating yourself up too much.

You got remember that enough light thrown at a wall will show some stuff.

We are finishing drywall, not painting cars.

half to agree with capt,old time taper asked me when I was 1st starting "do you try and do your best and make every job PERFECT" I said "YES" then he said "then your in the wrong business,go get a easel and be a artist" went on to say if your doing that perfect job and the JERK don't pay ,you could of been in your next house by now making up for your losses
you half to be a dry wall whore, make the CUSTOMER happy ,not you,
So think like a hooker ,do what you got to do to make them happy ,then get their money

I'm a high priced one by the way

cazna

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 27, 2010

Good advice, Thanks.

Mudstar

· #12 · Jul 27, 2010

cazna said:
I am in a small town, and your right, I think in citys there is less accountablity for what you do and in smaller areas most people know someone who knows someone.

something up and the whole town knows.

Maybe i am beating myself up capt but to do better and figure stuff out is what gets me out of bed, I just enjoy the challange.

And i think you would find if you came here we and behind the times 2buck, McDusty who posts on here moved from canada to here found it all a bit backwards, i think hes fled back to canada now.

I think you answered your questions on, why is this happening

First you admited "you figure stuff out" and you also said you enjoy the challange.

I think you might be in the wrong trade cazna ,talking like that, or you are just still trying to figure it out.

Did you just say that?

Tip!

Learn the material and how it finishes with methods recommended by the manufactures suggested ways and pay attention to detail of the out come and adjust accordingly to obtain the finish desired.

What more can I say?

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Mudstar

· #13 · Jul 27, 2010

rhardman said:
On walls or lids where lighting was a possible issue I always went overboard hitting the first coat with a hotmud/plaster of paris mix and then skimmed everything out by hand real wide with AP then Sof Top (Hamiltons). Always turned out well but took a lot more time to do.

Looking forward to what other guys think about this... :thumbup:

Honestly that method of finishing is for small jobs and should not be attempted by any one wanting to to quality production work. Your dealing an unpredictable dry time that fools most, its sanding properties is yet to be desired by my standards, I could go into details but anyone that works with it knows this. I'm not saying I'm right but I know its easy to use drywall air dried compounds for finishing for best results.

cazna

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 27, 2010 (Edited)

Mudstar said:
I think you answered your questions on, why is this happening

First you admited "you figure stuff out" and you also said you enjoy the challange.

I think you might be in the wrong trade cazna ,talking like that, or you are just still trying to figure it out.

Did you just say that?

Tip!

Learn the material and how it finishes with methods recommended by the manufactures suggested ways and pay attention to detail of the out come and adjust accordingly to obtain the finish desired.

What more can I say?

Mudstar you are a prick, you read my words and make bullsh!t up to suit your own fathead ego, feel good typing crap like that does it. Feel like the man do you!!!

I type a few lines that i like to learn things, most of us but obviously not you, never learn it all, products change, methods change, tools change, no one knows everything and i dont give a stuff how long you have been doing it, you dont know it all, You big hero. Easy to be brave over the internet isnt it, You use your imagination to figure out my reaction if you said that to my face.

So you have never made a mistake have you, or is your ego to big to admit it.

I use this site for some help and feedback to better myself and help others, why are you here, your not helpful at all. PS F#$K YOU.

Looking Forward to your bullsh!it reply now big man, It will be crap and unhelpful so Fu%k you again in advance.

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cazna

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 27, 2010

Mudstar said:
Honestly that method of finishing is for small jobs and should not be attempted by any one wanting to to quality production work. Your dealing an unpredictable dry time that fools most, its sanding properties is yet to be desired by my standards, I could go into details but anyone that works with it knows this. I'm not saying I'm right but I know its easy to use drywall air dried compounds for finishing for best results.

Rick said he used an air drying finishing compound, or are you in such a hurry to be a pompous arse you just skim read and fill in the blanks to suit your own pompous arse ego. Im thinking this is the case mr pompous arse.

Rolly

· #16 · Jul 27, 2010

Casna, your work quality expectations and attitude sounds alot like mine.

I know we are not painting cars but I used to until an occupational deseas and I cant seem to help but try to put some automotive touch to my quality

all my pears constantly tell me that I go overboard with my quality but I cant help it, maybe I am in the wrong trade as well but I do get paid well for what I do (usually 10-20 cents more than the guy in the house next door.)

dont know if this will help but I prefill the day before tape, I prefill the entire flat with taping mud( a little looser than out of the box) using a 8" knife (platsic or VERY soft metal so as not to fill the beval). this will break up your drying time and allow you to leave less mud when taping, I find most tapers dont go this far but it is nessesary to have a nice sealed substrate to lay your tapes on to acheive (rediculous) quality.

I will post more later as I have to go to work now but 1 last thing, as you are in a small town like me it is easy to educate your builder......HEAT HEAT HEAT and get some FANS.

I used to own a big drywall company and the bottom line of my quote read something like this

CONTRACTOR IS RESPONSIBLE TO SUPPLY ADEQUATE HEAD TO MAINTAIN A MINIMUM OF 65 DEGREES UPON DELIVERY OF MATERIALS

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rhardman

· #17 · Jul 27, 2010 (Edited)

I'm all about tried and true methods but "figuring things out" keeps you on the bleeding edge of any new technology :thumbup: and gives you an advantage over your competitors.

Rick

cazna

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 27, 2010 (Edited)

Rolly said:
Casna, your work quality expectations and attitude sounds alot like mine.

I know we are not painting cars but I used to until an occupational deseas and I cant seem to help but try to put some automotive touch to my quality

all my pears constantly tell me that I go overboard with my quality but I cant help it, maybe I am in the wrong trade as well but I do get paid well for what I do (usually 10-20 cents more than the guy in the house next door.)

dont know if this will help but I prefill the day before tape, I prefill the entire flat with taping mud( a little looser than out of the box) using a 8" knife (platsic or VERY soft metal so as not to fill the beval). this will break up your drying time and allow you to leave less mud when taping, I find most tapers dont go this far but it is nessesary to have a nice sealed substrate to lay your tapes on to acheive (rediculous) quality.

I will post more later as I have to go to work now but 1 last thing, as you are in a small town like me it is easy to educate your builder......HEAT HEAT HEAT and get some FANS.

I used to own a big drywall company and the bottom line of my quote read something like this

CONTRACTOR IS RESPONSIBLE TO SUPPLY ADEQUATE HEAD TO MAINTAIN A MINIMUM OF 65 DEGREES UPON DELIVERY OF MATERIALS

Thanks for stepping up and adding your first post Rolly, cheers for the support, I realise full well that its very hard to get it perfect and we are all in it for the money, but at what point do you accept this and stop trying?? I guess it depends on location and type of work you do as 2Buck said.

Maybe i havent been doing it long enough or lossed out on enough quotes yet to accept this, 16years, 12 self employed fully trade certified painter/ decorator/ interior plasterer. And 1 year pre trade carpentery polytech,
(What are you certified at Mudstar, My guess is An A+ at being a pompous arse and NOTHING else)

Im not ready to accept that some things are just good enough yet, i feel like a part of me would die if that were the case, ( then maybe i would do something else Mr Pompous Arse, Yes you Mudstar)

Im still making a living and getting my family by being this way, I get tons of work and have a great name for it so its working for me.

Anyway, thanks to Mr Pompous arse Mudstar we have lost track on this thread

Can anyone tell me what they think about Hot mud Vs Pre mix for taping? which Shrinks more or less, i thought Pre mix would Shrink more than Hot mud, but did you say otherwise 2buck? And i was NOT asking you Mr Pompous arse.

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2buckcanuck

· #19 · Jul 28, 2010

welcome rolly,what rolly said is what I find the good tapers do here in Ontario (or else where in canada) pre fill with straight stiff mud out of the box,or add one cup or so to make it workable ,do every damn screw or nail in house ,we do the ones in the angles too !!!keep away from hot muds,do whole house with regular mud if you can,just mixing X amount of water to mud changes the property of the mud with sanding ,shrinkage,etc...hate to defend mudstar on you ,but that's what he's trying to say, just using two different brand of regular mud in a house can cause nightmares,then throw in hot muds ,holy!!!!,pre fill with regular mud makes huge difference ,don't do closets etc...would not worry if it's totally dry before taping but it's nice ,thats what i did today ,pre filled our next house(8000 sq ft 2 hrs or so )
this could be a new thread now ,WHO PREFILLS 1ST

Rolly

· #20 · Jul 28, 2010

thanx 4 the welcome guys, I had to cut my previous post short as it was time for me to hit the road to work.

prefill is about cure/dry time in my books, its all about breaking up the depth of your aplications to limit the required drytime

cazna's original post was about a tapline showing through under critical light surcumstances after paint

for the last few years about 80% of our work has been big pig huge houses 'o' window, usually rite on the water with nothing but critical light walls all over them and we noticed the same problem sometimes.

we killed most of the problem with a overkill on the prefill....we PREFILL EVERYTHING ei the entire bevel, any deep bevels in the angle all screws/nails and absolutly any gap nomater how small, this allows for a much thinner mud to apply the tape which drys much faster.

the rest of the problem can actually be swelling (my own theory) not shrinking, from the moisture of the primer and paint, this can be fixed by applying a precoat surface equaliser, the equaliser will cause the same thing as the paint but it sands out easely in the equaliser....I use synko pro coat made by cgc, I dont know what they have in your area Cazna

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