Looking for help testing new tools...

Kiwiman

I think I might have seen somewhere a bazooka head with a bayonet type connection to attach it to the tube....Or did I just invent it.
Hey Rick, I saw your website, it's coming together nicely. By the way, what type of cutting system are you using on the mesh taper?

rhardman

The cut off blade is stationary, mounted on the front of the taper. When it's time to cut, you just move your wrist and it's done.

Today I spoke with the first 2 testers that just received the mesh prototypes. It's a brand new concept and one of them had some apprehension in his voice. I explained a little about how to use it but since it hasn't been seen before, it might seem awkward at first. Neither tester has tried it yet.

You can roll it down the seam which works well but often the roller never comes in contact with the wall. It's not operated the way you might expect. It will take a couple of days for them to get used to it.

Looks like I had better put a video together before any more go out.

Rick

(Kiwi, don't I owe you a paddle? We're working on better international shipping rates so I hope to have it to you before too long.)

rhardman

oops

Kiwiman

Awesome, I like how much thought and research you put into your tools, I was wondering about the loose thread issue...Nice touch putting the extra blade on there.

rhardman

That's the funny thing about the research. This whole thing started in 1977 when my dad had an idea for a new "super tool" which we tried on a job in Independence, Oregon. It worked fantastic for about an hour until our mud pump fried. Since then my father found other interests and I (for some unknown reason) couldn't drop the issue. I've been working on the pump since then. Machining and prototypes for it were horribly expensive so whenever I would run out of money, I worked on the hand tools.

After all those years, you pretty much go over everything (like the thread cutter).

Rick
My dad's "super tool" has turned out better than he had hoped...
(If you've seen our logo on the temp web site, the "HSI" is also a backwards "RHsr." My attempt to give respect to the guy that started the tools. I'm RHjr)

UPDATE: The Mesh testers should know that when you are going to quit for the day, you need to "park the tape." Take the end piece of glass tape and bend it back around the small roller, then stick it to the tape coming off the roll. This eliminates tape from unraveling.
Attachment 130
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(I just noticed a debate on another thread about fiberglass vs. paper tape. We're not recommending glass and this taper to be used with regular mud or to replace paper tape. I used glass for thin wall plaster, with hot mud and for glassing corner bead. Just want to be clear... Thx )

rhardman

This texture gun works very well for smaller rigs. We have another version for greater material flow. It will be available with the ball valve or Cory's new pneumatic valve. This picture isn't complete as my photoshop guy is working on the final version for the web site. The picture is missing the ball valve handle and the replacement spray tips which fit on the back end where you see the threaded tube(s). I'll post it as soon as I get it back.

Whatcha think?
Attachment 131


Our creaser wheel accessory for the automatic taper:
(FYI for those that care...we've documented the creasers with a similar configuration. Patent wise, we're rock solid).


Oh, and before anyone mentions the need for a longer reach for the Mesh Taper, we have an extension handle in the works.

This is the mesh prototype...not pretty yet, but functional.
Attachment 134


Finally, the Industrial Lift Grip I've been talking about.
Attachment 135

Not everyone will need or want the taper or the grip. For those that do, they're very good. Whitey has agreed to evaluate the grip. After everyone chews these up, the next round of tools should have broader appeal. We'll see what you say...

Thank you.

Rick
Website Update: You've got to hear this... Our web guy charges $10,000.00 for a site and he's backed up well into February (we're in the wrong business). He's giving us a smoking deal so we're waiting for his schedule to clear a bit. It's just as well, we need more of your opinions (and to get our mfg costs lower) before we know what tools to put there anyway.

Darren@Partners

Haven't really gotten to put the mesh taper to a full on test yet(today?), but did get it all loaded up and tried it out on a couple of beads yesterday. A couple of things we noticed right off: Maybe need a "finger" guide to prevent the mesh from running off to one side or the other (or maybe we gotta learn to run it right) . And maybe needs a "tongue" to initially stick the tape to the wall, finding we have to start the gun and flop that first 6" or so back against the wall. Finally, that we haven't learned yet how to avoid cutting the tape too early when approaching a dead end (floor) and have to turn around and pull up from the floor with a second piece of mesh.

But again, we haven't used it enough to learn the "english" of a new tool, so maybe we'll solve these problems afield. But it's an awesomely made tool and are really excited about it.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

rhardman

Thanks for the great feedback Darren.

Is the tape rotating freely on the spool? I had the tube lathed down (to fit the roll) by a different machinist and just found another proto where he didn't do it correctly. It's too large so it's a tight fit. Let me know if you need a smaller diameter spool.

Running off to one side:
The width of the head was chosen to work with the 2 most common tape sizes. It's easy to reduce it to the narrower size of tape you use but then we have 2 part numbers which adds to cost. Let's give it a bit more time to see if technique solves the problem.

"Tongue" for applying the tape to the wall:
I thought about a tab a while back but the only solution at the time was expensive and a bit more complicated than I thought it should be so I thought we'd try it out to see if you (and the other tester) thought it needed one. This can be remedied easily.

You don't want to run this thing by simply putting it into a corner, rolling down the cornerbead and then trying to run the embedment roller clear to the end of the bead. As you said, you end up cutting the tape too early.

Operating it is a two handed thing. Until I can get a video on YouTube let's try a written attempt at this...

Presuming you hold the taper in your right hand:

Go slow and be careful at first to orient yourself to that cut off blade. You should have a glove on for protection. When you first start a stick of bead or a seam between panels, pull a leader (a foot of tape) from the taper with your left hand and place it at the top of the bead as you bring the taper up with your right hand. As you roll the taper down the bead, use your left hand to press the leader onto the wall. Simultaneously, roll the taper and embed the tape as you progress toward the end of the seam. I sometimes (lightly) pull my left hand across the newly applied tape just to make sure it was laid down properly. As you approach the lower section of the bead, pull the taper away from the wall (while holding the tape to the wall with your left hand), estimating just how much tape will be needed to reach the bottom. As you are doing this, slide your left hand down the tape pressing the loose mesh onto the seam progressing toward the end of the run. At this point you have already cut the tape.

Moving toward the next seam or the 2nd side of the bead, you are pulling a new leader to begin the next run.

Think, "Lead, Roll, Pull, Cut" which means,

Lead: Pull a piece of leader and apply it to the wall.
Roll: Roll the taper down the wall.
Pull: Pull the taper away from the wall and estimate the proper length to reach the end.
Cut: Cut the tape. (Remember then to use your left hand to press the piece of tape onto the wall to the end.)

With a little practice it won't take long to consistently get the tape cut to the proper length.

Honestly, it's more like a dance than anything else. When you "get" the rhythm, it all makes sense.

This method works for seams, corner bead, patches and everything of any length.

It works well for detail work and headers as you simply hold the taper in one hand and pull and cut pieces by looking at the seam. Then you apply it to the seam with your left hand. In many cases, the taper never touches the wall at all.

Let me know if this helps Darren.
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The little secret is that after we get the hand tools finalized, I'm going to adapt the Mesh Taper to paper tape. Then we'll couple it to the Raptor so we have a hand held cfs taper. A "perpetual banjo" so to speak. At the same time we're going to offer a service to adapt the "automatic" tools contractors already own to the Raptor texture system (remember Cory's pneumatic valve he's working on?). So, for less than what many 100 ft texture systems cost, a drywall contractor can use the tools he already has and have a complete CFS taping, finishing and texture system warranteed for life.

This shows the extended taper (sorry for the bad picture)
Attachment 136

The proto's are set up for a 300ft roll of tape. The 500ft is different:
Attachment 137

Something else...there are other attachments that replace the front section of the mesh taper.

Can we say, "hand masker?"
Attachment 138

Rick

rhardman

I spoke with the first tester on Friday. He said that once they were able to get the technique down it worked well.

The second tester should be trying his real soon.
We're jazzed to hear what he thinks.

I have to tweak a couple of "brilliant ideas" I had as far as how to fasten things together. We already had the alternatives sitting on the work bench so it's no issue at all.

Attorney still won't release the Man Pan. This one's a new idea so we hadn't already done the research and put things together before I mentioned it. I also need to sign the contract for the patent assignment.



Rick

Sir Mixalot

Great news Rick. I'm going to have to try out one of those mesh tapers.

__________________
-Paul
www.PeckDrywall.com
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silverstilts

Now that is what I would like to see the taper adapted for paper tape hooked up to a cfs, I think that would be useful as I still am not convinced on mesh yet...

__________________
aka the rock doctor

rhardman

Sir Mixalot- If you could help us out, I need your review of the creaser wheel phoned into a number I will PM you. I'll be happy to send a mesh taper when they are ready.
Your's will be the last sample sent out (these little things are expensive to build).
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Silver, I absolutely respect your hesitation on the mesh. I would only use it for corner bead and patch work or small remodels with hot mud. The first few tools we will offer are compatible with Drywall and Plastering with the mesh taper much more attractive to the plaster guys. My reason for asking drywalltalk guys to test the taper is because I know they will be much more critical and frankly, harder to please. I'm a drywall guy even though I did thin wall plaster for many years too. By direct marketing to both fields we increase our early sales opportunities until the more advanced drywall tools come out.

You mentioned the paper tape adapter for the mesh taper. I will highly recommend that when the Raptor A-2 is available, people get it as it will be expandable with other features announced later. By itself, it will be the best and most powerful texture machine (with the broadest variety of textures available) in it's price range. At first the pricing will be as low as we can possibly offer it so we can prove it to the industry. But it's more valuable benefits will come 6-9 months later. At that time we will increase the price semi dramatically (probably 20-30%).

I will make a drywalltalk commitment to you right now Mr. Silverstilts. When we are finally able to introduce our main focus tool, if you don't skip a breath, say "WOW!" and want to try it out immediately, I will give you $500.00.

No BS, no fluff and no sales crap.

From me to you, right now, a contract.

Rick

silverstilts

Rick I am not trying to run your new system down don't get me wrong. I have no doubts as to how well your mesh applicator will work and with all due respect for those out there that use the mesh I think that is there right to use whatever product works best for them,( it is a fairly new way of doing drywall 25 years or so) my point was, I myself have yet been convinced on the mesh because of prior experience. Unless it is used properly with the proper mud it can cause problems down the road. Myself I do not like using Hot Mud because of all the clean up involved and I believe that most jobs allow enough time for drying so that is why i tape the traditional way with regular mud, it is not necessary to always rush a job, that is all I was truly trying to get across. I think it would be a great product if the mesh taper was adapted to run paper tape with the cfs . Change is not always easy for some of us older guys in the business ,does not mean that we wont change just takes a little more prodding.

__________________
aka the rock doctor

drywallnflorida

I don't like to run hot mud either but do use it alot because on small jobs we think its better to spend the time mixing/cleaning up and be able to put mutiple coats on VS. packing up and going to another job and setting up to coat just one coat on multible jobs. Anything under 35-40 bds we use hot mud!!! And in my opinon your right on the fact of only using hot mud over mesh (atleast the first coat). Just my .02!!

Darren@Partners

Okay, review on the mesh taper:

Love the handle set up. Well thought out and executed. Virtually no operator fatigue.

Have done a couple customs with it (for metal bead only). I think we can say it saves some time, but is more a convenience. Not having to lay down a roll having it pick up trash in between beads. The roll stays debris free.

The cutter eliminates having to carry a six in your free hand to cut the mesh.

Am still on the UMHF roller, no residue build up as yet. Have run a dozen or so rolls through, no problems.

Pretty happy with it overall. I do believe it will cut exposure to repititive stress injuries due to the handle configuration. Especially for those with smaller paws. B+

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www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

rhardman

Ouch!
We're shooting for an A+

Darren, what does it need other than the anodizing and cosmetics?

Rick
I know about the fasteners...

A+ Texture LLC

Well I plan on giving it more use before giving a final thumbs up but here are my, and my contractor buddies first impressions. As Rick has stated he spoke to a couple testers and said one had some apprehension in his voice. I'm guessing that was me. When I got it out out of the box my very first thought it's kind of big a little cumbersome maybe, I thought it would take some getting used too. In all fairness to Rick though, I hadn't anything to compare it too, and had never used a competitors version. After using it a little those thoughts dissappeared. My buddies first impression of it was, "Oh cool, I would use this". He seemed to think it was the coolest thing since sliced bread.

Two things that popped in my mind when getting it ready were the extremely sharp blade. What if I'm working with it over my head and lose grip of it. Surely my jugular could be at risk. Sometimes I worry about the inane, like falling on stilts and my head hitting a countertop on the way down. Unlikely, but you never know. The other was it seemed like it would be kind of difficult to load it. Anyway I'm sure the blade issue Rick thought about because each side of the blade is somewhat "protected". And he also mentioned you should wear gloves. My buddy learned that quickly, it got him even though he was wearing gloves one finger had a rip on the side and sure enough he ran it along the blade and provided us an opportunity to use my first aid kit. I don't think it's needed or should neccesarily be offered but maybe a kind of bracelet and chain to stop it from falling to the floor, should you actually drop it... Just a thought.

As far as the loading goes, we both thought it was difficult to load. In the end I just used a piece of masking tape to stick the mesh to the grooved nylon roller and pulled it thru. I would have called Rick but we were working in an area where we were not allowed to have our phones. We may have been doing it wrong but I think this might need to be addressed. We thought maybe if the nylon roller was "spring loaded" or could swing in and out of place with a locking mechanism it might make things a little easier.

To sum things up I think it's a killer product, it does take some getting used to but it definately does the job. I will be using it a little more and give my opinion on its function. One other minor thing my help mentioned was there could maybe be use for an adapter if you use the rolls of tape from HD that have a bigger hole. But then again it might be just one more thing to lose.

Darren@Partners

The guys still think a "tongue" would be helpful at getting the mesh started on the wall. They also mentioned wanting an "ear" on each side that folds away, to ride on the bead, hate to mention this one, I know more parts. But they suggested it'd help the taper tracking down the bead. And I am a bit cautious with that cut-off blade also. I set mine as far back as I could, but sure somebody will find a way to get sliced soon or later.
Never thought of the foam roller being spring-loaded, but that'd make rethreaded easier.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

rhardman

If you hold the taper on it's back, thread the tape underneath (over, when it's right side up) the smaller roller and with your thumb, roll the larger roller, the tape should feed through easier. The protos are tweaky, the production models will be machined tighter so the taper becomes virtually self threading.

Attachment 140

Okay I get the tab, I designed a complicated one years ago but I'm sure I can do better, I just have to think about it for a couple of hours. The tricky part is making it effective without interfering with the cutting process. There's geometry going on in there that is really quite precise.

And the blades, now I'm sure you can see why I only sent 2 out to begin with. Those blades cut like the proverbial hot knife through butter (you gotta admit) but I'll get some other material that isn't sharp in the same way. For legal reasons (I told my attorney and he's *issed at me for using those blades) I have to tell you that you need to remove the blades and tape up the sharp edge. Then file or grind down the rear edge and use that to cut until I can get new blades out to you. There are 2 other mesh tapers I'm aware of and with all due respect to their designers, I'm not really impressed with what they use to cut with.

Attachment 141

I spent the day with the Raptor and will be with it tomorrow too. I'll see if I can get some new blades sent Monday.

If you need a tab for corner bead, it's not being used as fast as it could be.
I really need to take time to do that video, it will clear up a lot of questions.

Thanks for the great input, I'll take care of the issues!

Rick
Oh, and until we get an adapter for the 3 inch mesh rolls, you can use the smaller diameter roll and tape with it until you get down to the i.d. of the larger Fiba-Tape roll (and use the first roll as an adapter).
Look very closely at the following picture, and you'll see what I mean... Attachment 139

Kiwiman

Gidday Rick, Not sure what type of blade you're using but I've been playing with one of those sellotape packaging tape dispenser thingee's, they've got a toothed type cutter which seems to cut mesh like turds through your toes, and they have a plastic safety guard that folds out of the way, it's held by the screws that hold the blade in.