removing texture, wet vs dry?

miket

Im in the middle of a ceiling job. The HO wanted the texture removed and ceiling painted. As far as texture goes this ceiling was one of the uglier ones.


The ceiling was unpainted. I mentioned that ive heard ceilings can be scraped wet, but my boss(dad) never tried it before and decided to use our PorterCable drywall sander with 80 grit pads which we also had never tried on a textured cieiling. It went much faster than by hand and left it pretty smooth.

The dust was beyond ridiculous. I had plasticed the walls for spraying and expected a decent amount of dust but not that much. It was crazy. I've sanded skim coated ceilings before and know some dust flies when the machine hits at an angle and expected it to be several times worse with the not so smooth texture but not like that. The vac only collected a tiny fraction of the dust not even a majority of it by a long shot. On the way to the job I picked up norton 80grit hook and loop pads and a norton foam backing pad from home depot. When installing the backing pad i noticed it was almost twice as thick as the foam part on the original combo PC foam/sandpaper pads . With the thick norton the sandpaper sits a hair above the brushes instead of well below them.Ugh. I think thats why the collection was so so bad. Have any of you bought those pads and have a problem, especially on ceilings?


When wet scraping do you get a lot of digs into the joints? How fast is wet scraping? We own a PC sander and i can say that its defintly faster than hand scraping and leaves a decent finish.

There are other ceilings to do in this house so if wet scraping is better, i'll try it there.

miket

Off topic:The tape around the perimeter of the celing needed another coat but the joints were finished. lots and lots of minor imperfections in the ceilling as expected.

There was a big dip in the ceiling. Previously there had been water damage in the center of the dip which was fixed with a horrible horrible texture patch.(i'd never get away with that on an insurance job, maybe a slumlord job). The HO was convinced the water warped the drywall and wanted me to cut out the large dipped down section and replace it. Warping didnt make sense the drywall was very solid. I cut out 4.5'x3' to find someone nailed a 5' long sheet of osb to a joist to brace it. probably the plumber who put a drain pipe through it. The osb was taller, extending below the joist about 3/4' avg, more towards the end. The original drywall guys just went over it. I cut it flush with the joist and hung a new piece of 5/8's to match. The edges didnt line up with the existing drywall though so i ground them down some, taped them and then covered the whole area with a couple thick coats of easy sand to smooth it all out.

Custom Drywall Svc.

Why don't you just skim coat over the unwanted texture....?

Am I missing something here, because I feel this would be the easiest solution.

If it's how I imagine, i figure a good 1-2 skim coats should do the trick to level the ceiling back out.....then sand with a sanding pole. Use some lights after sanding, check the ceiling for any possible dips or valleys you might need to spot touch-up, then retexture the ceiling how the HO wants.

miket

By the homeowner wants the texture removed and the ceiling painted, i meant he wants a flat ceiling, maybe i should have made that more clear.

The addition on his house has nice flat ceilings, flat as is in smooth, they do have a flat gloss too but are not flat as in level, the addition included a complicated cathedral type ceiling and 4 dormers as well as several normal rooms. Im doing the large old connected mudroom-hallway-kitchen-otherhallway-diningroom ceiling now and will be doing several other smaller rooms soon.


The popcorn texture is really thick,course uneven and just a bit crumbly. If i could skim coat over it to fill it in, it it would take longer and be more work than removing. At least skimming by hand, maybe you guys have a super skimming machine i dont know about. I might have skim coated the ceiling after removing the texture if there had been more imperfections but spot patching was enough.

Custom Drywall Svc.

Ohhhhhhh...this is popcorn? okay, i see i see......of course, you were asking wet or dry. Ok, now it makes sense.

In that case, we always perform wet for acoustic texture. And like you said, if its unpainted, it should be even easier because the water doesn't have to break through the chemical layer to absorb. Soak down sections with a pump sprayer, let it soak for about 5-10 mins, then scrape it off with a 10 or 12".

Most of the time, it SHOULD come off nice and easy.

Taking a porter cable sander to this would be the last thing I would do. And God forbid there's asbestos in it.

Anyways, once you take it off, typically you'll need at least one more coat on all the nails and butts, etc. Popcorn texture back in the day was a quick solution to texture as well as being used to hide bad finishing, so just remember that.

If the HO wants this painted afterwards, I would make sure the finishing is around a level 5. I would finish it off with a coat of Hamilton Prep Coat, to avoid joint flashing and other imperfections, especially for a ceiling.

Basically roll or spray this on -- I do both if I can. Spraying it on, followed by someone back rolling it. You can even perform a spot touch-up with lights the next day after it is completely dry to spot other minor imperfections. Past this, it's ready to paint.

alltex

I put this on here once before and got mixed opinions.We have done this many times with good results. First put 2 inch tape around the top of wall then coverfloor with plastic up to walls.tape the seams in plastic real good and tite then hang lite wieght plastic on the walls so it overlaps on the floor.don,t tape walls to floor.Now pop a staple every 4 or 5 ft. in the wall tape so it won,t fall when wet. now get you garden hose hand wet it down let it soak a while and hit it agin ( don,t worry the accutic will sop up the water) .Now the stuff will scrape off easy with a wide knife or even a floor scraper.(if not painted).we have scraped and touched up one day and retexured the next many times.No dust exept if you sand your touch up.Think what you wan,t ,but it works!!

eastex1963

Yeah, and if I saw you on my job with a garden hose in your hand that would be the last job you ever did for me...................GARDEN SPRAYER!!!

eastex1963

I am assuming that you're talking about a water hose.....

miket

Custom Drywall Svc. This house was built well after asbestos was outlawed.

Alltext I put plastic on the walls first,not just to contain the dust but so after removing the texture and fixing the ceililng i could then spray paint the ceiling. I put paper on the floor but would have put heavy plastic on top of that and removed that floor plastic after wet scraping if i went that route.

Again I am not retexturing the ceiling.

I would have tried the pc sander in one small area and wet in another small area first then did the ceiling but my boss just wanted to get started w the sander.

Custom Drywall Svc For comparison have you tried the pc sander with the 'proper pads' on a popcorn ceiling or know someone who did? How much dust is created? Like the amount created sanding a level 4 ceiling with a standard pole sander or is it still way worse? hand sanding the edges, spray painting, everything im doing is creating some dust, i just dont want to create an extremely excessive amount.

How fast is the wet scraping is it slower, like dry hand scraping but with the added water spraying time?

Does wet scraping dig into the butts? I know wet scraping wallpaper digs into the butts if the walls underneath weren't properly primed.

How many mils thick do you spray your prepcoat?

Surprisingly the all the butts and most of the screw holes were finished only the edges of the ceiling were level 3.

Custom Drywall Svc.

No I havent tried the pc sander.

Honestly, I'd just never go that route with acoustic....wetting it down is so much easier i feel. Even if i had the proper pads for this, I would never take a pc sander to it.

As far as cleanup, do this, similar to what you described....

get a base layer of plastic, and make sure this is tied down real good............next, put a top layer of plastic on this, but loose, not tied down.

This way, when you scrape off the acoustic, it all falls on that top layer. This will allow you to simply remove the top layer when cleaning up, trapping all that acoustic with it. Now, to continue working in that room, you still have that secured base layer of plastic on the bottom.

As far as time for wet scraping....it just depends -- is it painted? ceiling heights? flat clng? etc...

For your scenario, if the HO wants it completely flat, like a smooth wall -- you surely have to make sure the texture is completely coming off. Whereas if you were to spray this or hand texture it, obviously if you left behind little remnants of acoustic texture, it wouldnt be the end of the world. This HO basically wants a smooth wall ceiling, which means more attention.

If anything Miket, SAND after you wet scrape to get off the little bits left behind...WITH a sanding pole.

As far as the knife digging into the butts when you scrape, not really. Besides, it doesnt matter because i guarantee you that once you scrape off the texture and see the existing finishing, that its no more than a level 2 finish. You HAVE to touchup the ceiling anyways, so the knife digging into the butts should be the least of your worries.

My company has done 100's of popcorn removals / retextures, and i have yet to find ONE ceiling we didnt have to touchup, whether it be minor - extensive.

Again, like i said before -- consider rolling / spraying on a drywall primer like Hamilton Prep Coat before the HO paints...trust me. It basically brings everything on the ceiling to ONE substrate, making it look nice and even.

Good luck!

(Oh btw -- If I saw someone take a garden hose to my ceiling as well, i would surely kick them off the jobsite hahhahahhah)

drywalljoe

ihave used my porter cable sander to sand down alot of texture ceilings. with the vac attachment there is very little mess popcorn comes off real easy!

alltex

well it works good and haven,t been sued or booted yet

eastex1963

yet being the key word here.....hope the best for ya...I just personally would never do it.

alltex

It does sound scary ,but if you think about it , i use and am sure alot of us use a regular spray rig and it pacs as much potental for a nitemare as a tite garden hose with a good nossel on it.Actualy i never tryed a pis can sprayer but i bet it works good, just not as fast.I bet some of you are concidering the hose right now too.you just have to mask the floor and walls tite.try it you,l like it espesialy on a whole house.

Wallers

The key is Kilz. Scrape the texture down (wet), then use your pc to remove that stubborn texture on the joints and such, and then kilz it. I have vever had good luck just trying to put mud over all that dust and old rock. The kilz locks the dust up, then you can go through with a light and touch up all those dings and dents and get the screws filled. Then you are ready to glaze, or texture or whatever you need to do with it! You could also try gardz or usg first coat I've heard they both work also, I've just always used kilz. And also with that if you do a hand texture on it, the old yellowed sheetrock won't bleed through, so you are killing 2 birds with one stone!

Wallers

Has anyone tried one of those popcorn scrapers that you hang a baggie from to catch the texture as it falls? Looks like a pain to me, just wondering.

fr8train

Never had to do it, but I remember someone saying that when they are doing texture removal, they take in a big plastic trash can w/lid. Place a bag in the can, and use the lid in one hand to catch the debris while scraping with the other, when the lid is full, dump it in the trash can.

Frankawitz

You guys need to invest in a dust collector, it will keep your job sites clean. I built my own, I put one together but I can tell you this these machines will save you from cleaning a whole house. I use to use just plastic, now I know the dust isn't leaving the room.
As for wet or dry scrap use a wallpaper stripper just take your time and keep the razor blade sharp, it cuts down on your labor. If the HO wants the ceiling flat basecoat it with Durabond 90 Brown bags then hit it with topping finish smoooth light pole sand, ready for primer spot it out and paint

Wallers

They still MAKE brown bag db????!!!


j/k The only time I have it is when someone accidentally picks it up for me. By basecoat I hope you mean tight glaze! cuz sanding isnt really an option with that stuff, therefore the ceiling will be far from flat.

Wallers

We are on doing this in an entire apartment building right now. And it's painted. Found the ticket!!! Use the pc first (I do agree with you about NOT doing this normally, it is like beating a dead horse, it does NOTHING) BUT, with painted-- Use it! Break the ceiling down a bit, and THEN spray with water! The pc gets all of the larger chunks off, thus making a porous surface for the water to permeate! Then it's GRAVY! But, I will still kilz all of them with an airless before touching up and retexturing. The mud just really doesn't like to stick to the surface after a texture removal!