Priming and Texture

A+ Texture LLC

2 Questions
1. When you guys prime before texuring (new rock) do you do it for the purpose of the texture adhereing to the rock better, or for the purpose of it drying evenly for a consistant knockdown? The companies here all shoot on bare rock and just knockdown right away or sand when dry.

2. When skimming to retexture do you prime before skimming, after skimming and before texture or just after texture? I've heard all three ways so I wanted to see what YOU guys had to say on it.

Custom Drywall Svc.

A+

1. Are usual process, honestly, is we never feel the use for a primer (on bare rock...or new drywall, whatever you wanna call it....IF im understanding you correctly when you say 'bare' rock).

If we DID.......the main purpose i would see it as is so everything blends evenly........the primer would act to bring everything to one, uniform level. If your finishing work / sanding is good enough of course.....the primer is unnecessary......especially on a standard level 4.

Now, just because i never have my guys primer, i never said it was 'bad'.......my personal opinion is that it never hurts. And although it can be minor, i never spend the extra cost and labor to apply it.

as far as i know, a lot of companies rarely use a primer before texturing (on new drywall), unless requested.

and btw, do people really SAND the texture down to achieve a 'knockdown texture?' hahahah.....no offense to anyone who MAY do this method for knockdown...but to me, that sounds bad.

when we do a knockdown texture on new drywall, we spray it......let it dry for about 10 mins/room.......then comeback and use a broad 24" or so plastic knife with an extension handle to 'knock' it down.

after 10 minutes, the initial spray stiffens up a bit to allow the knocking down.........do it too soon, and itll just end up looking amateur and un-uniform -- or too knocked down (flat).

2. it really depends A+ on the condition of the area to be skimmed......
if its questionable, i always have my guys do test squares of about 2 x 2 with mud........then we just wait to see how it reacts to the raw wall basically.

if you do this, and find the mud bubbling (due to whatever chemical might be on the existing surface trying to escape) then yea, you should roll on a primer/shellac......whatever.

and after the areas are completely skim coated....are you asking if we put on primer on top of that?......if so, no....i never do that at least. unnecessary. (again, each case is different though).

as far as priming AFTER texture (if this is also what u are asking).........around here, painters usually do it. rarely have i primed post-texture.

hope that helps A+.

A+ Texture LLC

I don't prime before texture I just ase a squegge type knife right after I shoot. But here and elsewhere People have suggested you should, a waste of time in my opinion.
On skimming I think maybe the only time to prime might be on real glossy walls, but I've read other posts where some say prime before skimming and some say before texture. If you followed this advice you'd end up priming 3 times by the time you paint your finish coat. Seems like a waste of money. And time. I'd still like to hear some other opinions though.

Custom Drywall Svc.

exactly. youd end up priming 3 times!!!!????

it is a waste of money, especially if you are doing production style homes.

if this was high-end custom residential......high-end specs across the board, etc etc......than yes, prime before you texture...but still, thats it.

i dont see the use going beyond one prime.

and yes, u are right on glossy walls...

still.....i would test areas of those glossy walls even with mud to see how they react.

quick note: on a small bathroom skim/retexture......i was stubborn and didnt have my guy prime the walls NOR did i have him perform 'test' areas with mud........i just told him to go gung ho and start skimming the hell outta the bathroom walls, although i knew there was a high gloss paint.

i figured at the most, i would have to do a spot touch-up on areas that bubbled due to the gloss paint.

well......i ended up skimming this freakin bathroom THREE and a half times hahahhaha. my finisher was very frustrated with my stubbornness although i could tell he was afraid to express it hahhahahha......ill never forget when he looked at me on the 3rd skim coat as he passed over the bubbling and finally goes.... "boss......im getting paid for this right?"

hahhahahhaha....priceless. the thing that bit me in the azz, was the bubbling wasnt apparent until the NEXT day.....even by the end of the 1st skim coat, my finisher said it was just bubbling minor......but we thought a spot touchup the 2nd day would do. yea, i was wrong.


sighhh.....thank god it was a tiny bathroom...but still, i learned a huge lesson haha...

all in all, never hurts to be cautious.....and i admit i DEFINITELY cut corners just to get the job done fast.

if i primed originally, then skim coated....i coulda textured the 2nd day and walk away from the job. i instead ended up texturing on the 4th freakin work day.

alltex

around here its standard now days to prime before texture.seems like everyone wants lite orange peel and if you don,t prime first the mud lines can photograph threw and give the painter a hard time.for knockdown i usualy try to talk them out of it becaus it covers mor and it doesnt do any good

A+ Texture LLC

Ya know... I think everyone should have those times. Nothing makes a learning experience a learning experience better than those situations. They sure do make you pissin mad at the time but hopefully it's the first and last time.

Custom Drywall Svc.

Alltex,

if the finishing and sanding is done RIGHT mud lines will not photograph, just my honest opinion.

again, it NEVER hurts to prime, but if the sanding is done correctly, ive never (well, i wont say never), MOST of the time you will not see anything.

now like i said, this is true of GOOD finishing......

ive surely seen what you are talking about on hack finishing jobs, so you are by no means wrong in any way.

on 99% of the jobs we perform, its without primer.

silverstilts

I never prime before textures , If you have mud lines it is because it is not finished properly before textures , even with paint/primer as Custom states it will not fill in any ridges they will still be there..... Prime before textures is a waist of time and money.... use the time instead to properly tape & coat (and sanding if necessary) prior to textures therefore providing a quality job.. the only time I would use a primer is if the job is a respray and I do not want any bleeding to come through ..

silverstilts

I have heard of some sanding to get the effect of a knock-down after spraying , my opinion on the matter is this is not a knock down and it is also time consuming and creates dust that gets into the crevices which can cause some extra grief for the priming getting it to bond . It will not give you a very uniform look but make it look much rough .... as far as primer before textures it is not necessary to do for the text to bond ,,,, Think about it this way you wouldn't prime all the walls and ceilings before you tape and coat for the taping process to bond would you ? Of course not you just tape over bare sheetrock.. likewise texture will bond on bare rock..

alltex

i dont realy know any more we have been priming first for 15 years at least and the builders expect it .i always thouht it was bull too but its the norm now.since i dont paint ijust give em what they want.i

silverstilts

When I am asked if I prime before texturing and tell them no they ask why , I usually turn the question back at them and ask them why would it need it and why it is necessary , they usually don't have an answer to validate doing it and it is left at that... Unless you charge extra for it you are on the losing end , General Contractors get enough freebies always want an extra for nothing , well my freind there isn't anything for free now days ,,,, have some mechanic work done on you car and ask him if he will throw an oil change in for free and see what they say.

alltex

its not free it costs more than just texture.about 5 cents or for knock down same price because of extra wipe down time.

Custom Drywall Svc.

yea, exactly....i do the SAME thing, turn it around on em....

Alltex, remember that YOU are the drywall contractor.....the General Contractor isnt.

if fumbling, think-they-know-it-all Generals had it their way, us drywall contractors would probably be priming before we tape also, and not getting paid for the extra because they think its 'standard.'

and before we know it, we'll be priming 7-8 times when its all said and done, hahha.

dont let them fool you Alltex. if you are or you aren't, get educated on the proper procedures so you can have substance to go back on the General for. Most people on here will be MORE than happy to answer nearly any questions you have.

theres never a stupid question, trust me.

I'd be screwed if i let all the generals i've faced dictate 'how' my company should be finishing my drywall.

and on the flipside, im sure ALL you would agree that the best generals to work for, are the ones that realize YOU are the drywall contractor, not them.

eastex1963

Guess what........

I agree.

silverstilts

now i am confused because .05 cents is not enough to cover your time not to mention the cost of primer and whatever you use for texture... I myself use to do an add on at .30 per ft for just knock down but all that did was confuse the GC so now i just incorporate it into my taping price.... buy the way I do not ever break down per ft anymore what i charge I only show a dollar amount , I have my reasons , the main one is if they do there homework they can figure out the footage .... Tired of people just comparing sq ft prices , let them look at the total and think someone else screwed up , they usually only look at the bottom price anyway....and they always like to deduct if there is 1 or 2 sheets left over , this way i usually tell them i order a few extra to make sure I have enough ... does that make sense ?

Custom Drywall Svc.

YES!

Jesus, i cant tell you how glad i am this was addressed. from a business-standpoint, WHY THE FU-K would anyone EVER breakdown a price to a customer like this, UNLESS they had to pull your leg to find out....??

i was thinking the same thing stilts mentioned about Alltex, .05 per foot? not only is that low, but......is that the price for the general? just confusing perhaps, the way it was worded...i dunno...

bottomline, when i give a STANDARD price (let me know if you guys agree or disagree), that generally includes:

Materials
Labor (hang, tape, level 4 finishing, spray-texture, cleanup)

thats IT. and i make DAMN sure never to breakdown the price for each of those, never.

when prices per sf are exchanged on this forum, i understand theres some companies out there, that perhaps do....JUST hanging........or JUST finishing......or JUST finishing & texture, etc...

so, i 'get' having to break it down seperately......

but i generally think its a bad idea if you consider your company 'full service complete drywall' to be breaking down prices. i really do.

again, let me know if you guys agree or not, but simply.......the SMARTER you make the general contractor (or end-customer) on your pricing methods..........the more of a DISADVANTAGE you put yourself in terms of leverage and future negotiations.....simple as that.

dont nail yourself in a position Alltex, where nextime the generals gonna ask you "well hey, i just want you to prime this wall for me, period..........05 cents per foot yea? go at it"

if you start breaking down prices, and making your business more transparent, itll just nail you in the end, believe me. i made that mistake once, and only once.

theres a fine line between GOOD business transparency and BAD business transparency.......

like stilts said, ONE price. if the customer needs more 'clarification'.....let THEM come to you.

the average person, you'll just confuse them if you break everything down, and they'll most likely not think about it.

but all it takes, is the 'chicken hawk' general contractor types, to try and nail you to the cross on the next go around.........finding any way they can to loophole and take advantage of you.

if anything Alltex, i STRONGLY stand behind everything i just said particularly on this post.

Custom Drywall Svc.

A+ Texture LLC

You guys are right, if you give a sq. ft. price the GC will just try to knit pick your jobs after that. They'll deduct for windows, doors or whatever. Or just try to figure out bd ft themselves and it will naturally be less then what you came up with. Then try to make you second guess yourself or act like your trying to rip them off. I'm an honest person, maybe too honest so when someone acts like I'm trying to rip them off it just makes me wanna pop'em in the jaw. The other problem will be air head HO's trying to bring their total cost down. How much more for this how much less for this, what if I do this but not this. You know, the type that refers to to stucco as plaster, plaster as drywall, drywall as stucco and when you use these words they look at you like a deer in headlights. Keep askin me these dumb questions and your bill will ONLY GO UP!!! Thats when you refer them to your competitor (the one you don't like).

Custom Drywall Svc.

that is the worst, normal homeowners that i deem as the 'public sector' hahah.

your 100% right A+, .....i cant tell you how many times a customer asks me to 'replaster' there house....i always have to cut them off and be like "do you want me to replaster your house, as in ....plaster-plaster.......? or are you talking about sheetrock...?"

haha....

'airhead' is a perfect term for some of these homeowners hahaha........i had this one recent remodel, where this lady was like "well, if i deduct the 2 round corners in this area, how much can you credit me back....?

the lady looks at me like im going to deduct 1-200 bucks for ditching 16 linear ft of cornerbead hahhahahha...........

ah, well...cant get too hard on em though....they simply just do not know any better.

gotta love em!

alltex

i,m not too good with wording i admit and frankly i dont give a f*##*k what anyone thinks about how i do business.I prime and texture for 10 cents and make $100 per hour when i do ..if you charge 30 cents just for knock down your a ripoff or you dont have the equipment or know how!