Tubes or pumps???

savyvt70

Hi folks. Was wondering if the general preference is to use tubes or pumps (or both) and why. I'm thinking serious about purchasing one or the other and would like to know the pros and cons.

DSJOHN

If you decide pump give me a pm---I have an Apla-tech for sale.

2buckcanuck

tubes or pump for what...bazooka,,,,,boxes,,,,,,,,flushers ......???????

DSJOHN

Thats kinda what I wanted to ask

Mudstar

Is this forum for professionals or not Nathan?

savyvt70

Sorry, yes I could have been more clear. Would you rather run a tube and a flusher or a corner box. Forgive me for not being as "professional" as some, generally forums are for gathering knowledge and that is what I'm trying to do. I would like to know if I should use a flusher with a tube, or a corner box which as I understand it would be filled with a pump.

Capt-sheetrock

I'll take a stab at this,,,,

Tubes and flushers are a cheap way to get into tools. No they will never do what a corner box and an anglehead will, but they can get the job done.

Kinda like a bicycle is faster than walking, but can't compare to a truck

michel1949

i dont have much experience as of yet but my 1st experience was to use a tube and suck the mud in and most of the time i had air in the tube then i got the pump and pump the mud into the tube

the tube is not too easy for a beginner and what a mess lol

so i would go with the pump and the angle head.
remember to use the corner roller it will make it easier for you

McDusty

and as usual i will disagree with the captain. the tube & flushers ARE the cheaper alternative, and in my opinion, the better one. i just recently sold my $350 northstar 3.5" flusher in favor of an $89 better-than-ever one.

i'm not sure why captain thinks they are miles apart. it most certainly can't be because the tube is slower... because that's just silly.

I don't know what the one guy is talking about with the tube sucking in air. must be not mixing mud properly.

nobody around here uses the angle boxes. in fact, i've never worked with anyone in Canada that uses one.

there is a learning curve with all tools. don't expect to start slaying board like a pro right away.

michel1949

McDusty

the 1st time i heard about the tube BTE and the flusher someone told me it was easy to use so i bought one and this guy told me to add 2 gallon of water to the mud wich i did what a mess then the guy came on the job to show me how it works the quantity he told me was pretty near the 2 gallon of water and after he flushed the angles it had a ridge on both side that is beside the mud on the floor i had to clean up..
till this other guy came on the job and told me to use less water and this last guy told me to fill the tube with the pump and it was really easier to fill with the pump.
so the way you are talking a 79.00 bte angle flusher would be better then any 300 to 400.00 automatic angle head?
i just bought the 4 hours video from new taping tools store .com and jon d luman is the one on the video as far as what i saw all he uses is automatic taping tools wonder why he din`t go with the BTE after 33 years in the trade i am sure this guy heard of bte... anyway you`re allowed to dislike the automatic tools but as for me
i will not clean floor as i did with the BTE tools after all i am not a janitor i am a taper. it`s a good thing the contractor dint see the mess or he would deduct it from my paycheck.
another remark the video from jon d luman at www.newtapigtoolsstore.com is great for people who wants to learn automatic tools very well explain and you can see him in action slowly and he explain clearly every move he does to make it easy for the beginner.

2buckcanuck

another way to use the bte flusher (can am) is to use a applicator on the end of the tube,you apply the mud on the angle,then with the flusher on the wiping handle,wipe it,with the flusher on the wiping pole ,it makes for a tighter finish,and more easy to control,less mess too!takes longer but no body pain,will find you a link

2buckcanuck

here's a link to a aplicatorhttp://www.mississaugahardware.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/110/products_id/1815?osCsid=p6e7rvepdhmqsfcl7a0ucv6946
I know alot of tapers going back to the can am/bte,me being one of them, I go with a 21/2 " mechanical head to tape,then a compound tube with the corner applicator,then a 31/2 wiper (not flusher,big difference)on the wiping handle,about 6 tim horton cups of water go with the mud micheal(cgc red)tell me type of mud your using,will tell you how many cups

CON"S of the can am/bte ---flusher/wiper,,,using compound tube applicator
-they wear out fast (about thirty houses,6 -9 months service)
- a BIT more sanding(when they start to wear out)
- slower production
-leave a rounder point in angle(sponge in point,if u want)
PRO'S
-inexpensive tool
-can adjust mud flow(move runners up,less mud)
-can file them down to get longer service out of them(2 years)
-user friendly,easy to learn
-no body pain (using tube/ applicator,then wiper on handle)
-extremely easy to do high work (easy on body)
-closets easy to do
-do 3 ways with wiper(some call it pulling,polishing the ends(that ones a secret)
-you can use thicker mud
MECHANICAL HEAD PRO'S
-does a really a nice job
-fast production........in big open areas
-can use a mud runner
-less sanding
-blades replacable
-longer service life (sorta)
CON'S using angle box and mechanical head (hockey box for bill)
-expensive (it's called rape)
-blades can break or get nicked
-new blades almost the same price as a can am/bte wiper
-high maintenance (labour wise,adjusting blades,cleaning etc..)
-do not drop on concrete floor
-they will NOT last you a life time
-your name has to be HE-MAN on high stuff and closets
-kills your body (pain)
-not user friendly when learning to use
FOOT NOTE
dont know nothing on mud runner so.....BUT compound tube with a flusher on it ,,well......puts way way too much mud on,angles take forever to dry,too much sanding,could go on......

cazna

Great write up 2buck, f ing brillent, I have both flushers and angle heads, couldnt for the life of me get angle box/heads to work out so switched to tube, mud head, then flushers, works ok but found i had to push a lot with the flusher and using a tube, then flushing was going over everything twice and i wasnt really happy with the corner, bit rounded, i hate that, so got a mudrunner and some drywallmaster speed wheel bone heads and i can hardly believe how great it is, you hardy have to push and once you get the hang of the twist and go of the mudrunner its so easy, after one room i never looked back, and holds over twice as much as a angle box, its like gliding along with silk and the corners are just so clean, almost no cleaning up behind it, i can hugely recommend a mudrunner, fantastic for corners, best thing out.

SaskMud

Am I the only one using the bazooka for inside corners,
Keep it simple
-Bazooka
-Roler
-3inch angle head
-finish ends by hand...

michel1949

for inside corners
the way i saw walboardman going in his video
-Bazooka
-Roller,corner
-flush with a 3inch angle head
-skimming with the 2 inches angle head with the angle box

by hand you will have to go twice to skim the angles
with the angle box you will skim both at once.
I am sure some pros will explain better since they have the experience

if you want the video go to ebay and look for taping tools and you will see the videos look at the full set
or go to www.newtapigtoolsstore.com he also sells it there.. the video gives you a good idea on how to use the automatic tools

2buckcanuck

it's about finishing/coating,not laying the tape,I merely stated what type flusher I used when the tape was laid(21/2) showing that some tapers use mechanical heads and can-am heads in conjunction with each other.to finish their angles

2buckcanuck

micheal1949
"I am sure some pros will explain better since they have the experience"
maybe I'm misunderstanding your french,I think the PRO"S knew what I was talking about in my post
Thank you cazna,you under stood it completely
cazna's a pro

cazna

Ha, Cheers 2buck, Wouldnt call myself a pro yet, very experimental maybe.

I thought you were talking about the coats after the taping as well, I use a bazooka to tape and then corner roll as well, Then follow things up with the mudrunner.

I have those dvds from newtapingtools as well Michel1949, have you actually tryed his ways yet???? i think you may find all is not as it seems,
No disrespect towards john luman intended here, they are great set of dvds and helped get me started on the auto tools and mr luman clearly is a man of great experance and its works well for him, plus being the big guy he is allows him great leverage on the tools, someone smaller may not run it so well, but no way have i been able to bazooka, corner roll then flush with a 3 or 3.5 anglehead and leave enough mud in the corner for a result that i am happy with, its just to bare and our beveled edges seem to deep for this to happen, and as for the corner box with a 2.5 for finishing???? no way again for me, I just couldnt seem to get it to happen, just not enough mud for a nice corner. And how the hell does he wipe down the ceiling tapes and with the same wipedown knife get a coat over the tape again, couldnt get that to happen either, and what a demon on the bazooka, amazing.

So even though i folllowed those dvds as close as i could a still had to change things to suit me in the end, thats what its all about really, finding what suits you not what anybody says is always the best for you.

michel1949

din`t try it yet isince i am on vacation but will be on the job tuesday
it s true that sometime what you see in the movie is not what`s gonna happend in real life.. at least the dvd gives a good idea for someone who never used automaric tools.. yeah this guy seems to be tall he must be close to 6 1/2 foot tall and i am only 5 1/2 so it will make a big difference..
anyway i will give it a try and if i have too many problem i will try to find someone who is experimented with automatic tools and go learn from them wich i think it`s the best way..
the thing i find where john loses a lot of tiem is when he wipes the tape but it`s a video so probly he wants to show the good way to do things but from my experience
i will lose less time on the wiping and the box will fill it even if it takes more mud cause if i would hand tape the flats i could be faster and the bevel would be fill and i dont wipe for ever i fill the joint with a trowel so the bevel is full before i put the tape and when i wipe with the same trowel the bevel is full on the 1st wipe.
indeed i will take what ever is best for me and try to get the job done cause now a days as soon as you lay an inch of tape the 1st question they ask is when can the painter come in ..on the overall he gives good ideas and a few tricks seems to be good. as i mentioned i never worked with automatic tools and i am sure they want the rooms as quick as possible so if i have too much problem i will have 2 choices
do longer hours or take sometime and go learn in reality with someone who knows how

cazna

You will be right mate, just dont be afraid to change things around if it does not work out for you, there is more that one way skin a cat? not that i have tryed to skin a cat mind you??

There is many ways to achive the same thing in drywall so no one is god, each to our own as you will find out