Pieceworkers

Capt-sheetrock

Me too Geprge, its called free enterprise, capitalism. I love it

Capt-sheetrock

You sir are ignorant of history. Slavery was wrong and a bad mark on this country, but it was not the founding factor of this country. Its hard to dicuss things with people that want to re-write history.

Peace Comrade

fenez

see captn I could just make a point of saying that when there are no unions in place it makes it very easy to take advantage of the workers such as the mining accident that just happened, you know the one where the 25 under paid miners were working for a company that over 3000 violations, that my friend is why there is still a need for a union. while I am not a union contractor I still see why there is a place for unionized labor, simply because most companies don't care about the people that work for them. Before you say that this is just a single thing that rarely happens let me inform you that there has been a rash of non union crane and scaffolding accidents in NYC.

Capt-sheetrock

Check this out comrade,,,, I don't concern myself about how the boss feels about me. I don't expect him go "out of his way" to cater to my candy ass. If I take the job, I take the risk. Maybe you should have stayed in day-school

fenez

All well and good but when a boss breaks the law and you lose your life because of it I would say that would squarely put the blame on him, I am sure you are not blaming the miners for their bosses flagrant disregard of the regulations in favor of making profits.

fenez

Giving what the captn said some thought, lets see if I got this right, it is perfectly ok if a huge company asserts its power over its workers with total disregard for there welfare while breaking the law. That is exactly what communism is and since you agree with that kind of dogma that would make you a communist. Got it comrade?

d-rock

Gents,
If you have to be an employee for a company, better to work in good conditions with higher pay and benefits. If you were given the choice why would you work for less ? THAT IS NOT CAPITALISM. That's just stupid.
I worked non union for a long time, it was paycheck to paycheck, none of the guys had their own houses or decent cars, forget about retirement packages. The boss, on the other hand, had a great house, new boat, new truck (all of which he deserved for his hard work and risk). He made himself wealthy with his business. Excellent, that is the american way.
I figured the employees played a part in that, so why not treat them better ? Why pay some guys 170 per day , and also have illegals in the company working for 120, then when it gets slow, lay off the the guys that get paid more. Illegals still working.
Is that right ? I got sick of breaking my but and not being properly compensated. So i did what any red blooded capitalist would do, I left for a better job. I joined the union and earned 70k my first year, 100K the second year. I bought a house and a new car.
Now, this non-sense about quotas that is getting tossed around is a giant load of BS. It's an outright lie. It seems the guys that most knock the unions are the ones that never did it. I'm not knocking non union work, I'm just saying , it seems every non union guy has a giant chip on their shoulder about unions. The stereotypes just get reinforced. Now mind you, i'm not talking public sector unions, which do nothing to contribute to a profit base. Private companies, with productive , profit creating employees. If my employees make me rich, then I should treat them right.
So you guys carry on about socialism and communisim, when in fact, i believe you have NO IDEA what those things really are. I think perhaps you've listened to a little to much talk radio ( which i do as well) and formulated these strong opinions based on your misfortunes and missteps. Is eveything about unions great ? NO. Are they corruptable ? YES. That's human nature. But look how helpful they have been for people. Especially all of us. wether you realize it or not. ALL of the basic construction safety standards come from unions. The methodology, and development of new products and technology in construction comes in conjunction with the trade unions. The standards of wages come from trade unions. Though i'm sure some of you guys still pay 100 per day for a 10 hr day...
Finally, I will say this again, I left a union job to start my own business. I did this b/c I am a capitalist, and b/c I feel it is my duty to my parents who immigrated here from a communist eastern european nation. I could tell you first hand what life is like in those places. I could tell you first hand what American freedom and oppurtunity means to a family like ours.

Darren@Partners

Whoa! Last I checked, Massey was a UMWA shop. So why didn't the union squeal about those violations. I may be pretty opinionated about the trade unions, but was nearly a third generation digger myself. If MSHA and the union both allowed this operator to rack up violations and ultimately kill 25 miners, then ya think there wasn't some payola going on? Dad, granddad, my uncles, were all surface miners, but some had been done in the lead mines and swore off ever being underground again.

All that said, china loses more miners in a single accident, often up to 200, than the US does in 25 years. Massey may be a bad player here. I'd never heard of them being habitual violators, but what do I know? I do find it odd there were 100's of violations and the UMWA had to know also. That the union didn't strike or exert pressure otherwise, I think says something.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

Darren@Partners

Drock, you think the quota talk is all BS and say because I'm not a card carrier, I have no idea? I've heard this same max output quota stuff for 15 years, maybe it's all second hand, but rumors do not circulate for that long without there being quite a bit of truth to it.

You also stated you are not now a union shop. Does this mean you do not pay your workers $81 an hour right now? Or you do pay it? For the record, until the slow down, all my men were paid near scale on wages and over on bennies. Dear brother went into the painters union and lost his holiday and vacation pay and quite a few other perks. He does now earn, after two years, a higher wage, but still no holiday or vacation.

And I'll quit trying to educate you on the definition and proliferation of Socialism. Talk radio did not write the definition, history did. None of us can change history, as badly as the Progressives want to. So if "collective" bargaining and all the union tenets are Socialism to you, please live in the bliss of your ignorance. I will not sacrifice my morals.

By that I mean, I wouldn't sit through a union meeting and hear the steward tell me how I ought to vote. Not without, if I were a true Capitalist, standing up and stating that I'll vote for who I damn well please. So maybe change your label to "closet Capitalist".

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

Darren@Partners

A dedicated Teamsters union worker was attending a convention in Las
Vegas and decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to the
first one, he asked the Madam, "Is this a union house?"
***
"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."
***
"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
***
"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20," she answered
***
Offended at such unfair dealings, the union man stomped off down the
street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop. His
search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam
responded, "Why yes sir, this is a union ho use.
***
We observe all union rules."
***
The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?" "The
girls get $80 and the house gets $20."
***
"That's more like it!" the union man said.
***
He handed the Madam $100, looked around the room, and pointed to a
stunningly attractive blonde.
***
"I'd like her," he said.
***
"I'm sure you would, sir," said the Madam. Then she gestured to a
***
92-year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has 67 years seniority
and according to union rules, she's next."

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

DSJOHN

Awsome,cant stop laughing , You pretty much summed it up Darren!! JOHN

big george

I'am lost.

Capt-sheetrock

D-rock, I think you said it all, when you said that when you were working, you worked for the union cause you made 100K, but when you started your own shop, you went non-union.

Can't get much more cynical or hypocritical than that!

Workers of the world unite !!!!!!!! Karl Marz and SEIU and Obama

fenez

The upper branch mine is a non union mine.

Bill from Indy

i'll stay with being a sub/contractor...you can get your retirement when you die in the union and i'll take mine now d-rock

scale here is not that high and yes...i gross 2x what the average union finisher makes here

you may want to check and i'm not calling you a liar by any means, but most union "shops" have to supply there own tools...per osha standards...meaning, that if an employee brings there own tools on site and gets a violation, it goes on the company...so they provide there own tools and have a safety coordinator that makes sure everything is on par....I could be wrong but this is what I heard from a union guy that worked for me when he was LAID OFF...get that a lot around here too

mudman55

can u tell me how to get an oversea job have apassport ready to go ..works sucks in californiasend anemail to mudman 55@yahoo.com thanks

mudman55

how do you get ajob ..need to work real bad no work here in california ,email david @mudman55 @yahoo.com thanks