Pieceworkers

d-rock

OK. I see what's happening here. You guys don't understand how these trade unions work.
Let me clarify. This is it in a nutshell. Cap'n, read it slowly...

A union carpenter frames and hangs sheetrock. He works for a PRIVATELY owned company, he is REPRESENTED by a union, which demands certain things from the boss in order to work. (much like an executive uses an attorney to hammer out a 'terms of employment' contract , same thing in fact)
The boss is getting paid top dollar for the work, so he doesn't mind paying the wages and benefits, however in return, he demands a productive work force. He also RESERVES THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE AT WILL any unproductive employees.
You show up a quarter to 7, you're making noise at 7, you get 1 coffee break (10 mins) in the morning and you get lunch (1/2 hr). There are no minimums or quotas to fill, doesn't work that way. You are given specific projects by foreman which you MUST compete in a timely manner. If you can't cut the mustard, you get fired ON THE SPOT. You gotta produce, b/c if you don't , you sit on the 'out of work list' forever. Essentially it's up to the individual to make it happen for himself, this is not the UAW.

Here is the typical wage for a non union board hanger in the NY metro area
$ 20 per hour
no benefits

Here is the typical wage for a union board hanger
$ 43 per hour wages
$ 38 per hour benefits ( includes pension, annuity, vacation pay, full medical, full dental, full eye care and many other misc items)

That's $81 per hour. Make your choice.

FOR THOSE ABOUT

So D...there is no cap on the amount of rock you hang per day?

Are you allowed to walk stilts?

Are you allowed to run tools or only hand finish?

d-rock

No cap. The more rock you hang, the more rolls you put up, the better. Actually, the better you do the more secure your job is. When things get slow you will be the last to get laid off, when it picks up, you will be the first they call.

STILTS- That varies by company. Some companies do it, some don't. Most of the time it's your choice.

Running tools depends on the company. Some companies do it some don't. I know for a fact you're not allowed to run your personal tools. If the company wants you to run tools or use stilts, they supply everything. Same with the board hangers, they supply all the screw guns and power tools. You're not allowed to bring your own power tools. The idea is that you should not beat up your power tools on the company's job. Even non union, if a taper works for me and runs his own tools, i pay him extra. I supply all my carpenters with power tools on the job.
My own company is not union, I am hoping to sign up soon. First I have to build my business up a bit more. I am still a union member. The idea is the same anywhere you go, work hard and do the right thing.

FOR THOSE ABOUT

So you can only walk stilts or run tools 'if'n the mas'sir say it so?!

d-rock

when you say " mas'sir " do u you mean the boss of the company ? As far as i know, any company i ever worked for, union or not, we always did what the boss said.
if that's the only thing you got from reading my post,i suggest you slow down a bit to better digest the text.

FOR THOSE ABOUT

blank

asking you dude...WOW...you can only do that crap off of somebody else's equipment? I can understand you being happy for the money you are making, but are you part of the solution or part of the problem?!
YANKEES STILL SUCK

fenez

The reason that you have to use the companies equipment is because in order to use your own equipment you would have to carry your own comp ins. If you get hurt on a union job using your own equipment there is a possibility you would not receive comp.

MeatBallDryWall

Yup, I have no problems admitting that I'm not the brightest start in the sky. Maybe You sir should take a look within yourself as well.


Doesn't the union have to represent the workers even if they up? If not then what do they do besides collect your $$? Everyone up from time to time so that would mean you have to be perfect to work for this union?

So a Hanger makes $81 an hour with NO quota to reach each day/week, etc? Not trying to be a **** but I have worked at various other jobs over the years that were "union". Now days both places are closed & the 'union" let the company $hit all over us & did nothing.

fenez

what is expected from a union man is the same as any job, shut up do your job and give the boss a fair day, in most jobs the do nothings get weeded out rather quickly. I have seen my fair share of guys walking around and hiding but many many more just want to do their job and go home.

Capt-sheetrock

I don't have to read slowly. However, you mihgt want to read the Declaration of Independence, or perhaps the Constitution SLOWLY.

I am an American, Capitalist,Libiterian

Your entire argument can be boiled down to this:

I am making WAY more than the market can bear, ain't that cool ??? As long as I can make more than the market is willing to pay, I think everyone should support me and tell me I'm doing the right thing.

I know what a union is, and what their intent is, I just disagree with their socialist approach. Why do you find the NEED to convince me/us to believe in your Markist ideoligy??


I'm more than happy as a scab. Why can't you just let it go ????

Darren@Partners

An executive using a lawyer to negotiate a contract. This is how warped Drocks view is. The company negotiating with the exec, they maybe can't come to terms. The company goes out and finds a different applicant. When a private construction company decides it cannot afford to or refuses to submit to a unions demands is then picketed by the union, billboards placed accusing theprivate company of worker abuse. Their equipment and site are vandalized. And it is called "collective" bargaining. Recognize the word "collective"? It's found right there in the dictionary, in the definition of.... Socialist.

A capitist business owner looks at this: hmmm, use labor for $81 an hour, who will only work 7 hours a day, picket and shut down the job if their panties get in a bunch. Or... Hire quality workers for half ( or less), cross the picket ignore the billboard and get the job done with 10 hour days as the GC robbed his schedule cuz the other union trades would ony work sevens and he's two weeks behind.

So the company owner, he's a capitalist. The union worker making 81 an hour is the same greedy pig as a GM auto worker. See how that played out? Proof positive of the un sustainability of labor costs of $80 plus help. The customer is so willing to pay these higher costs? Nah, he's been extorted so long he's used to it. But if he could 50% of his projects labor without the bad press, he'd sure hang on to that money. Or maybe in the USSR of NY, he doesn't know he has a choice.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

Darren@Partners

BTW, the union rate here is about $33 plus 11-13 burden. That is corroberated(sp) with a local member and the prevailing wage book.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

Darren@Partners

The quotas I refer to are maximum outputs, like don't hang over 30 sheets a day, etc. Two colleagues got on a union job and hung 30 before lunch and were made to hide out til quitting time.

And Drock, never did tell us how you and your capitalist brethren feel about your dues going to support Chairman Maobama and his pinko appointees.

Or your recently awarded tax exemption for that CadillAc plan? Does it make you proud that your non-union neighbor gets to pay your share of taxes for the next eight or so years?

Cap'n, I think Drock has "capitalist" confused with "opportunist".

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

d-rock

great responses from all..More on all this later. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just expressing a different point of view. The debate is excellent. I'll be back to hammer you guys later ESPECIALLY you Darren !! Peace Out..

big george

What is it with you guys,what ever way you wan't to work.(days pay)

Capt-sheetrock

Big George. the big deal is that we are on the edge of going either into a socialist country, or getting back to our roots as a REPUBLIC. I for one don't want to go to France or Canada or anywhere else. There are folks in our country like Drock, that want us to be FRANCE. There are a number of us, that don't want to see this happen.

There are bigger things than the price of drywall. Like the Principles that govern a country.

Peace

fenez

There are no principles governing our country, just 2 sides that pit every american against each other while both sides pick our pockets. Its in their best interest to have us constantly choose a side to get behind when in fact both sides refuse to fix what is fundamentally wrong. Confusion is a politicians best friend. The government never has our best interest at heart.

Capt-sheetrock

Fenz, you might want to read the constitution. Unless i've missed the mark,,, It IS the principles of our country. The Gov was never meant to be our sugar-daddy. Just cause both parties are acting like Unions, doesn't mean that the principles of this country are wrong !!!!

fenez

This country was founded on SLAVE LABOR! So not much has changed in our over 200 years of existence. Our government was never fair or honest, for people to say "I hate what our government has become" is utter bs. we are as corrupt if not more corrupt than any other government and always have been. It has always been every man for himself and continues to be that way, I am not fooled by all the current flag waving it is just a show for our benefit. Don't kid yourself into thinking that any party or politician will change for the better. ALL these guys are ivy league lawyers they are cut from the same cloth. Being that we are governed by lawyers they have a way of interpreting the constitution whenever it suits them.

big george

For the record,I,am not up on your american issues.I just work for who ever and get paid for what I do,(piece work or by the hour).It's up to the customer,I'm in the boonies not in the city.