Pan and Knife or Halk and Trowel?

MudMaster

Here in Canada most guys use Halk and Trowel for hand taping...i hear in the U.S its mostly Pan and knife....any reason why?

Here if you show up on a union job with a pan and knife, they will think your a handyman...i have seen a guy get sent home when he started taping with a pan and knife...



MM

ThatDrywallGuy

that absolutely rediculous, what does it matter how the mud gets on the wall?

if anybody thinks a hawk and trowel is superior to a pan and knife or vise versa they are kidding themselves.

its how you use it that matters.

Chris

Custom Drywall Svc.

get sent home???

in my area, i would say its vice versa.

for hand texturing, i see no problem with hawk and trowel, but all my guys use pan and knife.....and, of course on normal, big sized jobs.....taping with a bazooka, and following it with a pan and knife is normal...

i myself, would laugh at a finisher using a hawk and trowel...to me, that just seems inefficient, always having to worry about excess mud spilling out of the hawk.....when, with a pan, it obviously stays contained.

but, NONETHELESS, with methods varying from region to region, i see no problem at all with any of these methods.

who cares really? if a job foreman gives you crap for pulling out a hawk and trowel, he obviously doesnt know anything about drywall.

to each his own. as long as you can finish the job in an efficient manner, i dont care how you tape and finish.

i care mostly about the end-product.

hope that helps!

Al Taper

I use a Hawk n knifes most of the time. If iam on stilts doing tops or ceiling i will use a pan and knifes to tape with only. Taping by hand i like wetter mud. And you can hold more with a pan.
But here in New Jersey guys from south NJ use a pan for every thing and guys from the north use a hawk for every thing. So i guess it goes by area.

brdn_drywall

hawk n trowel, load with stiff mud(thinning shrinks to much anyway) knives warp to fast unless you like working with a crowned tool,my guys are split some knife others trowel as long as the end result is good i don't care but i try to get all the green guys going with a trowel because i personally think its faster and with a straight edge better quality (non debatable in my mind)but a guy whos been using a knife for 15 yrs. and jumps on with us i will not impose my opinion on him

jzarate

Hawk and knifes for me most of the time except when taping behind bazooka.The rest of my guys use pan and knifes all the time except for 1. Ive tried turning them on to the hawk but they dont like it. I was the same way but now I hate grabbing a pan.

joepro0000

We use pans and knifes. Hawks and Throwels you would get laughed at, or thought of as an amature out here. Much faster I think with a pan. Plus you can spin the pan around, and do tricks!

Stephen

I was handed an 18" x 5 1/2" Marshalltown trowel and a 6" knife when first learning. 20 years later, those are the only two tools I use. Never larger knives, never a hawk, and most definitely never a pan. (I find the pan to be clumsy and messy). But as said by others, to each his own, as long as the finish product is professional.

Bevelation

I've never heard of a halk before, maybe I should check one out.

HA HA

Just kidding. I use hawk and trowel for almost everything except for the obvious. I respect the old-schoolers that can rip around a house coating with pan and knife. I find I just can't coat as smoothly, quickly and control it so well with pan and knife. I guess I suck.

As far as losing a lot of mud from your trowel to the floor, it's mostly time in the saddle that will help as far as keeping it on the walls.

ThatDrywallGuy

thats a quote i never thought id hear, halks and trowels ARE old school, not pans and knives. they are remnants of the days of plaster.

ive also never seen a halk and trowel in action, except by stucco guys , and ive been in this for 22 years

Chris

taper71

I learned with hawk and trowel. Now I use knives and hawk. I will use a pan when I am taping for the same reason Al Taper does, and like That DywallGuy said- hawk and trowel is the old school method. Since switching to knives I have not once had tennis elbo and for those of you who have not been in the trade long enough that tennis elbo can lose you lots of time, money and give lots of pain.

I find very few differences between the two methods, and have never run into a crowned knife or crowned a knife like brdn drywall claims. Mudding is more about finesse and floating than slapping it on with all your might. I can put mud on faster with a trowel, but its not so much faster as to save hrs in a day, maybe a buch of minutes. With a knife I do not get the knuckle drags and the corners come out cleaner where the bead meets in the corners - and like I said "Have Not had Tennis Elbo from using knives". Now as to pans , I personally do not like them because mud dries out on the edges and gets into the mud I am putting on the wall and nothing pees me off more than crap in my mud so I still use a hawk.

Al Taper

I do like useing a trowel if Iam filling in cornerbead. Like on a box beam or column.

drywallpro

I use a hawk and trowel to coat beads and butts. It puts a better fill on the beads. Trowels don't flex like knifes do. A hawk and trowel is a lot harder to learn in my opinion, thus the reason it is less popular. I use a pan and knife for everything else.

Bevelation

You're right. When I said that, I completely forgot about plastering. I see 95% of tapers here use hawk and trowel for almost everything, and the ones that pan/knife it are in their 50's plus. Proves that I'm new to the trade in comparison with many on here.

I guess sticking with what I learned on got me staying with it. I feel better articulated with a trowel for coating than a broad knife.

FOR THOSE ABOUT

Geez atleast my dude is/nt on some **** site...well, I have worked with Bill for six years...I was only allolwed to spot screws for one year, with a 6" and a pan. I had to sleep with my six too...clean all his tools (Ohh not that one) for one year, I am still cleaning his tools(Ohh not that one) ....i was raised on knife and pan had to claw my way to 4" and 3" only to duplicate the tools he runs for angles, Bill doesn;t belivieve in anything less then the 6".. Go Figure.. My tutledge still goes on, I have progressed to broad knives but I shall always remain...ever proud, humble servant, pervayor of the arts...always learning, drinking, loving...drywall

Bevelation

^If I had spent my whole first year spotting screws only, I'd go completely bonkers. He should have done the smart thing and let you finish sand.

MudMaster

Halk and Trowel Old School???....all the apprentices from the training center and all taught with Halk and trowel only these days...

We only see the "island Guys" with Pan and knifes here, and you only see them piece work...

brdn_drywall

anyone that says a used 12" knife is not concave,crowned,or worped is only fooling themselves, i've only been in this racket for about 12 yrs. and have used both knives and trowels, if you hold up a 12" used knife and look down the edge you'll without any dought see a hook through it (perfect for butts if you have the wiping finess to coat with it) but when loading bead the center of the crown is closer to the drywall thats being loaded thus taking more material off. If you hold up a finishing trowel and look down the edge i'll be straight (mines about 8 yrs. old still straight), ya there are drawbacks to a trowel like knuckling in corners, and sloped ceilings with beams that create a tight angle that you can't get your edge into when holding handle,you guys that access to both should try this coat one side of bead with a knife and one side with a trowel let dry and check with a straight edge.

Bevelation

I know, it sounds so backwards to us Canucks, but I guess it's true. Plaster aside, though, coating all p/k is old school. Not to diss guys doing p/k all the way, but if a 2 man team can polish 16,000-20,000 board feet of 9 foot in under 10 hours with p/k, I'd be impressed.

Bevelation

I agree, 12" knives aren't concave, crowned or warped.....until you put pressure on the knife to finish your work.

Knuckling with a trowel? Solution: if you're right handed, work from left to right; with tops, work the top joints before the ceiling butts if there are any that join.

Caving problems can happen with trowels, too. A lot of the time it's just the operator, ie., if the mud is mixed heavy for loading up bead, you could wipe too much off because of having to press to hard to flatten it without any wobble.