nail/screw pops

Muddauber

Hey guys,
I had to do final touch up today on a house we finished in the spring. 95% of repairs were nail/screw pops in the ceilings along the edge of the board in the angles. The rest was just some small nicks. Everything else was fine , no bead / angle cracks , no field pops.To solve this (pop ) problem in the future I'm thinking of just glueing close to the edge & letting the board float,( no nails ).
What do you guys think?

Custom Drywall Svc.

I've had this happen before...can be anything from the framing, bad lumber, outside weather conditions, bad hangers, etc that can force the nails to pop. Depending on the job, i sometimes will instruct my guys to screw everything perimeter and field. Most of the time, its just not worth the headache, time, and money when the customer calls back months later and needs to have the nail pops fixed. And if theres a fine machine applied spray texture, like a stipple.....thats not easy to patch and match. Most often, i'll just respray the entire ceiling after fixing it vs. trying to blend it.

its always NAILS that pop....not screws.

Muddauber

This was scews also.The hangers use just enough nails to hold the board up,then screw. Most I see are above outside walls & load bearing walls.I think the additional weight load compresses the ends of the ceiling joists causing fasteners to push out.
This job was all smooth finish, so ceilings have to be perfect.

Custom Drywall Svc.

yea......man, i don't think i've ever seen screws pop...but not doubting that it could happen.

If so, i don't even know what to say :P ...most likely bad lumber, and as you mentioned -- structural reasons......weight distribution, etc.

anyways, smooth wall finish...i know how that goes, hahhahaha....i always bid smooth wall jobs pretty high....especially if the customer gets smart enough to throw in terms like "level 5 finish" etc....

in this case, what seems to work good for me as far as smooth wall...is three coats, 3rd coat done by hand on the nails....sanding.....spot touch-up.....then roll on hamilton prep coat. so far, on my demanding commercial jobs, this'll do it.

of course, framing better be spot on.....if not, i have a disclaimer in my contract that says i am not responsible for neligent framing.

drywall can only reflect the integrity of the framing.

Frankawitz

In 28 years I don't remember ever seeing a screw pop It has always been nails, I take them out and replace next to the nail hole with a screw and make sure it's set below the surface without breaking the paper of the board. I use Durabond 90 as my bed coat then second coat is Durbond then topping compound, as for level 5 That's the norm all the time. also if mud bubbles on screw heads it's cause the mud didn't bond to the screw head so it looks like a pop, shave it off and fill with Durabond 90 spot it out.

www.frankawitz.net

Apple24

Frank are ya stupit? A screw will pop just as fast as a nail and ya ought to know this if your from michigan. Humidty Temp cond did the house take on a ton of water. I was in a house i did last spring that was framed in the winter took 4 months to frame, Hell they were snow blowing the subfloor.The framers were running propane in basement after roofed.Almost every screw popped in all ceilings joints ridged, beads popped in places.Lumber shrinks is my point but the fasteners stay put. The builder was not trying to blame me a bit, some people get it. your saying the reason my screws popped is from the compound not sticking to the head. Get a F-ing clue frank the mud is not bubbling till after a heat cycle the wood shrinks the screw stays. His corner round on wood floor was up 3/8" from the subloor shrinking. 28 years never seen a screw pop lol.You know how ya get away from srew pops put the house up let sit a year with heat then finish a year later and hang metal rc-1 channel on all ceilings.If you live in mi and do smooth lids youve seen a screw pop, or your not looking close enough.

brdn_drywall

i here ya brother bang on analysis get it a lot in winter construction everything looks fine when final sanded even after primer and first coat then after a month or two when all the following trades are done and its time for the final coat of paint the screws are popped mostly just corners of the screws popping out as a result of lumber shrinkage and twisting its really unavoidable in production housing and experienced trades in my area kinda expect it and deal with it as part of the job.

Frankawitz

apple,
how does a screw pop the wood can shrink but it isn't gonna push the screw out knob Now I have seen rocker put up their rock in the cold and the board sags, cause they didn't add enough screws to the field and I have seen screws that bubble cause the mud didn't bond cause the temp was to cold, But no in 29 years I have never seen a screw POP
The other thing, I haven't worked in new homes in over 20 years, the reason cause now it's all about how fast a crew can fly through a house, not much Quality anymore, what when you hang and finish you do two coats of mud sand and then spray paint finish Oh yeah that's Quality

www.frankawitz.net

Darren@Partners

I used to say same as Frank, never seen a screw pop, but they do. Never seen the bubbling you describe, though. I agree it is the ****ty green lumber, 2x6 - 2x12 is ALL green. Even 2x4 plate is green. Only kiln-dried lumber these days is PC studs.

Lumberman tells me that a Geen DF 2x may shrink in length up 3/8 per 8'. I've seen more though. No figures on width shrinkage, but am sure it would be under-reported. Seen 2x10 joists shrink 1/4 - 1/2" in situ myself. This is where roping/crowning occurs in stairways even when the hanger span over the rim joist. Heaven help you if they land the taper joint on the plate or rim. Just my .02.

brdn_drywall

o.k. this is how i see it sometimes when boarding if the screwer is opperating with a gun thats set to deep and breaking the paper around the head it's a "popped" screw if the tapers don't catch this and proceed to coat it comes back to haunt ya and has to come and get replaced.
also a properly set screw can be coated and sanded, and over a short period of time while the stud dries out it shrinks and sometimes twists resulting in popping the screw,this is also refered to as a "popped" screw in my parts, but when a screw is put in beside it and the board is pulled tight to the stud the popped screw is indeed pushed out slightlly from the board.
i think any problem with a drywall fastener whether it's pushed in to far or pushed out is commonlly called "popped".

Apple24

Exactly, But when mud is pushed out of screw hole slightly 2 months later and screw is not past the paper. Lumber shrinkage, if i put a screw next to it wont do any good basicly have to either put a 1/4 turn on em or pull em. theyre not popped, although i get some totaly popped screws as well. Lumber is **** better off going with metal on al smoth ceilings

brdn_drywall

its a no win situation during the winter months

Apple24

you can polish a terd all year long, in the end it's still a terd.

Apple24

I know an old guy that only used hattrack for all lids. And pulled all field screws when glue was set.Seen to many de-laminated ceilings to try that one, one batch of bad glue and it all comes down. Hell I plastered a house and all the screws on lid pushed through that as well we just scraped it smooth after a heat cycle.Done this stuff a long time and the lumber/ timeframe allowed for house to dry out, makes me ashamed of my own work, and these are no small homes. But i get a rep on the job to cover my ass and blame it on condition and or circumstances. My builders know i don't cut any corners and allways shows up on their work as well such as cabinets shifter floors settling, ya name it. Sorry to bitch but its getting rediculous.

Darren@Partners

Feel all of ya on the screw pops. Had a builder once that asked for us to glue the walls and then use 2" screws through a scrap on the walls, let the glue set and remove screw/scrap prior to spotting. This was just the field screws, mind you. Okay in theory, no pops in the field, but kind of a pain in the a**.

Ever notice how much more warranty work there is in a home where the folks are all on the heavy side compared to when they are all real skinny. Think about it.

Whitey97

never thought about that, makes sense

moore

1 tube per 5 sheets. Pull screws out of field. Walls only. Dont have nerve to do the ceilings this way, but know drywall men who do. Wet wood ,wet rock is the problem!!!!!

PrairrieDogExpress

We used to have problems with this all the time. Now boarders stay away from the ceiling angles with screws at least 1ft (wherever possible). Like you said just let it float. Its not coming down cause the wall sheets are holding it in place but it will not rise with truss uplift. You will be amazed at how many headaches you will save down the road by doing this.

2buckcanuck

wow ,your bang on the money PDE ,as I read the previous post I was surprised no one mentioned truss lift.they use to put L track (1x2) up,but slowly guys began to figure out not to put nails/screws in the field/edge.the central area of the house gets the lift,not the exterior wall areas.thats why some builders want you to start your ceilings from a interior wall to exterior wall in case theres a 12 or 16 inch rip cut.You can't do it all the time ,(house designs etc)but you try the best you can.
some guys like to use the drywall clips too.they hook on the drywall,then you nail them to the wall,but I found them to be a bit of a nuisance to use.
do I have anyone confused yet

igorson

Try 20 minutes for nail pops. Hard mud keeps better than all purpose.
http://1drywall.com