Machine taping vs hand taping - Drywall Finishing - Drywall Talk

Machine taping vs hand taping

 
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:32 AM   #1
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Machine taping vs hand taping


I was just going to add to one of Silverstilts post in "finishing butt joints" post#195, but thought ,hell start a thread on it.

I'm not pointing fingers, but there are some that come on here and half to totally bash Machine tapers.
One misconception is we don't now how to hand tape or use hand tools. Sorry but we do.
The one biggest factor that some hand tapers don't realize is "Machines replace labour ", from factories ,to farming and to the office worker, machines have been invented to make life easier, more productive, and create cost savings. Yes they can break down, but they don't call in sick (on sanding day) they don't ask for raises, they don't jump ship to work for someone else, they don't whine and complain, and their always there for you.

Where I live, residential is all machines, very few if any hand guys,,,,why???, Because the builders know what is faster, and you can't tell me builders in general are not fussy. the machines do good work.

On the other side of the coin, there's what I call the Union,Union jobs, the big government contracts and shopping malls etc. Those are the jobs where the hand tapers go, do they use machines ??????? Nope, those guys run a old boys club, they will try to kill you if you show up with machines,, trust me, I have done it. To them you are stealing the work of ten men, that's money out of their pocket or they might fall 2 weeks short to collect unemployment insurance because of you.

Plus, someone may half to define which part of machines they hate. Some guys have every toy but the bazooka. Some only own boxes, some may only own the angle tools, Some are half machine, half by hand............We can call the half and half guys mac-hand tapers with a mac-job

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Old 04-16-2011, 04:14 AM   #2
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2buckcanuck View Post
I was just going to add to one of Silverstilts post in "finishing butt joints" post#195, but thought ,hell start a thread on it.

I'm not pointing fingers, but there are some that come on here and half to totally bash Machine tapers.
One misconception is we don't now how to hand tape or use hand tools. Sorry but we do.
The one biggest factor that some hand tapers don't realize is "Machines replace labour ", from factories ,to farming and to the office worker, machines have been invented to make life easier, more productive, and create cost savings. Yes they can break down, but they don't call in sick (on sanding day) they don't ask for raises, they don't jump ship to work for someone else, they don't whine and complain, and their always there for you.

Where I live, residential is all machines, very few if any hand guys,,,,why???, Because the builders know what is faster, and you can't tell me builders in general are not fussy. the machines do good work.

On the other side of the coin, there's what I call the Union,Union jobs, the big government contracts and shopping malls etc. Those are the jobs where the hand tapers go, do they use machines ??????? Nope, those guys run a old boys club, they will try to kill you if you show up with machines,, trust me, I have done it. To them you are stealing the work of ten men, that's money out of their pocket or they might fall 2 weeks short to collect unemployment insurance because of you.

Plus, someone may half to define which part of machines they hate. Some guys have every toy but the bazooka. Some only own boxes, some may only own the angle tools, Some are half machine, half by hand............We can call the half and half guys mac-hand tapers with a mac-job
Very well put... Been there myself when working union. I must add though my experience with hand tool guys now is when they work for me after being in the union is if I send them out to a gravy job most times the first question is can you send (so & so) over there to box out the flats? Come on what is it ? You can sit there and bad mouth the boxes how inferior they are but yet you want someone to come over and do half your job for you? It kinda peeves me a bit I tell you. And then take 4 times the time it should take you to run a few beads and screws.... Thanks but no thanks... I have gotten to the point where I allow only a certain amount of hours for a job hand tools or not. Its not my problem but my employees. If I were to contract out someone building a home for me I sure would not hire any contractor that showed up with a hand saw and hammer. It would just take to long to get the job done. We always hear the hangup of how automated tools are hard on the body, well the truth is it isn't nearly as bad as the much repetition of repeated reaching and stretching when doing everything by hand. To all the hand finishers out there set in their ways I know this issue will always be debated to no avail, but at the end of the day I know what the best method is what method most Contractors expect and what will make the most money.. When starting a job why take the long and hard road... I wonder with all the lumber going into a new home how about we tell all them loggers to throw away all their equipment including chain saws and start doing their work the old fashioned way that would be ridiculous.
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Old 04-16-2011, 04:37 AM   #3
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


There's nothing wrong with machine tools as long as they are in the right hands, if they aren't set up right then they get a bad rap, if they are set up right and the operator knows how to fix them and look after them and knows what to watch for then the quality is to notch .
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:33 AM   #4
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


I have been in this trade for 30 years. I have had a solid background in finishing with hand tools for about 20 years. I have over the last 10 years switched to automatic tools and the difference in productivity is unbelievable. As I have alot of experience in hand finishing I know what is required to achieve a good finish therefore I know what is required from the auto tools.

In my experience the auto tools are the only the way to go for a good finish and far superior productivity.

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Old 04-16-2011, 07:12 AM   #5
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


I hear all the time machines are no good the same story I saw a guy use them once. Recently a local guy had too many jobs so he called me for a 500 board commercial job when myself and a helper finished our join before him and 3 guys finished a 250 board house now he calls me for every house sometimes the just have to see to believe
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:18 AM   #6
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


There is a reason Ames went out of business here on the island.
I work smarter not harder.If you saw this hand taper's system, which requires very little wiping out of tape,I bet you would have a different out look on this simple thing they call finishing wallboard.
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:41 AM   #7
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


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Originally Posted by Final touch drywall View Post
There is a reason Ames went out of business here on the island.
I work smarter not harder.If you saw this hand taper's system, which requires very little wiping out of tape,I bet you would have a different out look on this simple thing they call finishing wallboard.
Post a video
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:53 AM   #8
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


Dogs, ya cant use auto tools residential in NY. i have no problem with machines. They are fast and can do a nice job in the right hands. The draw backs I find is
. 1. sheetrock must be prepped and prefilled.
2. Butts ( no where near same quality as hand.).
3. Seams In pefect world come out nice , but when somethings off you end up having to do by hand. metal studs with standups are the worst.
4. i dont like the fact you have to sand screws.
5. Thinning down mud isnt the greatest thing for longivty.
6. Semi gloss paint will scare you
7. aweful lot of sanding
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:07 AM   #9
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


Quote:
Originally Posted by Final touch drywall View Post
There is a reason Ames went out of business here on the island.
I work smarter not harder.If you saw this hand taper's system, which requires very little wiping out of tape,I bet you would have a different out look on this simple thing they call finishing wallboard.
I doubt it post a video put your money where your mouth is. If ames went out of business it was for a reason other than the way their tools worked. Simple minds are closed minds. I honestly believe that someone in the trade of taping who bad mouths automatic tools probably don't have the finesse, talent, and just like to mosey & putz along at what they do. Again closed mind is a weak mind, a sign of arrogance, weakness and stubbornness. Final touch you can live in the dark ages if you want don't really care along with anyone else that has hang ups. Myself again I would rather save some time with a whole lot better finish and use the extra time to do other things that I enjoy. Come quiting time I like to look at what I have accomplished and say yep another Complete Coat don't have to work late or I will finish that tomorrow.
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:25 AM   #10
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Re: Machine taping vs hand taping


Quote:
Originally Posted by boco View Post
Dogs, ya cant use auto tools residential in NY. i have no problem with machines. They are fast and can do a nice job in the right hands. The draw backs I find is
. 1. sheetrock must be prepped and prefilled.
2. Butts ( no where near same quality as hand.).
3. Seams In pefect world come out nice , but when somethings off you end up having to do by hand. metal studs with standups are the worst.
4. i dont like the fact you have to sand screws.
5. Thinning down mud isnt the greatest thing for longivty.
6. Semi gloss paint will scare you
7. aweful lot of sanding
1 Drywall always needs to be prepped no matter what method you use.. 2 Butts will always need some hand finishing the boxes will fill in the heavy coats making it easier to hand finish final coat.... 3 no such thing as a perfect coat even finishing by hand will take extra time so if you need to clean up a flat with a knife or trowel you would anyway if you were hand finishing. 4 Don't you sand your screws after spotting them???? 5 I doubt very much if you use your mud straight out of the box... what about thinning mud down to texture never had any problems. 6 Semi gloss yes it would scare anyone but I guess that is why we would do a level 5 so that don't count. 7 Less sanding because everything is uniform and FLAT no ridges, humps, bumps or waviness.
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