Level 5, spraying mud???

 
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:02 AM   #1
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Level 5, spraying mud???


Hey i have read some of you say you spray mud for level 5 or roll it on, whats that about, are you using all purpose??

Im asking becouse all i know of here is dulux ultra 5 or resene 3 in 1 that is sprayed on, i am doing a house with the worst light ever for showing things up so i level 4 then sprayed it with dulux ultra 5, yeah it smoothed things over but you can still see the joins under it when the sun hits it right.

Here in nz its trowel trowel trowel which i am trying to figure out a better way but it looks like thats what i have to do, spend days skim coating everything which sucks, so please help find a better way, and im guessing i need a super expensive graco mark 5 dont I?? I have heard of thining down all purpose and spraying it through a 627 spraytip, and i seen a post on here i think they rolled two coats on?? Was it the (How can you not love going to work each day post)

Help, any advice would be great, thanks fellow drywallers.

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Old 06-28-2010, 04:21 AM   #2
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Any body tryed this method??

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ4pxtkcmNU"]BCDI -- Level 5 -- How-to video - YouTube[/ame]

Looks like it would work fine, a roller is cheap, has to be easier than scooping it out of a bucket onto a hawk then shoving it on the wall and then smoothing it off?? and i wouldnt need to spend $8000 on a Mark V for only a few level 5 jobs a year?? Might try it, Muds a lot thinner than straight from the bucket though?? Any thoughts anyone??

Last edited by cazna; 06-28-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:29 AM   #3
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


I'm not a painters backside but I found that well painted and well sanded (by machine) resene sandable sealer will give level 5 quality finish, but it won't take out deformities, just even out the background texture.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:45 AM   #4
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Most of the time this is fine, but this place is on a hill overlooking the sea, floor to ceiling windows, low setting winter sun reflecting off the water, its nasty, the poor celcrete dude has a wall that needs done again too. A full skim is the only option.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:13 AM   #5
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Yeah I saw the pics, I can just imagine the setting sun giving that place a-holes... a fly turd will look like a cow pat.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:35 AM   #6
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


i've never had to try it either but my intuition says it would work great as i'm sure yours is telling you. i would think two coats over fresh drywall tightly wiped would probably be perfect. if its over paint though you might just have to trowel on your first coat to give it a thick enough base so the paint is not giving you bubbles. i kinda think you know all this already. as far as the roller goes, you will never know until you try.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:27 PM   #7
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Quote:
Originally Posted by cazna View Post
Any body tryed this method??



Looks like it would work fine, a roller is cheap, has to be easier than scooping it out of a bucket onto a hawk then shoving it on the wall and then smoothing it off?? and i wouldnt need to spend $8000 on a Mark V for only a few level 5 jobs a year?? Might try it, Muds a lot thinner than straight from the bucket though?? Any thoughts anyone??
I'll venture an opinion.

Level 5 came about because painters keep screwing up the primer coat.

Thinned down mud is all ya need, you can buy the exspensive stuff, or you can just add a gallon of primer to your thinned down mud.

Thin it as you saw in the video, then either wipe it like he did with a knife, or I would suggest using a squeezgy(know that ain't spelled right). Either will work as well.

The whole point of a level 5 is to get ALL of the wall to the same texture so that the light will not pick up the differance between paper and joint compound, which could be handled by the painters IF THEY WOULD BACK ROLL THE WALL WHEN THE PRIME IT !!!!, which of course they won't, even if they are spec'd to do it.

You really need to quick(speed) sand the wall after its done, before you prime it AND BACK-ROLL it with primer!

Sheese, I feel better now,,, thanks
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:14 AM   #8
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Cheers Capt I knew you would come through.

I tryed it today with great results, Soooo Happy, I thinned the mud a bit to far so messed around and got it working better, a little thicker than bazooka mud worked well for us, rolled it on, troweled it smooth, done a couple of walls two coats like this and i cant believe how good it is.

Bring it on critical light, you can go #$%^ yourself, mess with me and i will show you whos the man. Its honestly that good.

I have a guy whos works with me so he rolled a bit, i watched, then trowels it down, he watched me, then he rolled some more and so on, we really got through it and had good day, I dont feel all beat up as you do scooping from a bucket and troweling it on then wiping down, thats slow hard and sucks, this way we got heaps done, and its great, not going to need much of a sand and had a cruisy day.

I know!! why dont i use i knife and pan?? becouse after 10years of swinging on a trowel, knife and pans sometimes dont feel right, i use one for taping but thats it.

Rolling The primer the right way is ok, but getting the sprayer out and hitting it is awsome. Unfortunatly im not painting this job, A man cant do everything, Another team is painting it with a paint thats between semi gloss and low sheen, closer to semi gloss that dosent cover and more suited to exterior use, And yes I am very @#$%ed off about that indeed.

Last edited by cazna; 06-29-2010 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:33 AM   #9
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Skim coating with mud with this method is a waste of time your better off to prime with quality prime, sand prime then paint. you will get the same results with half the effort.

If your having problems with your work showing through once painted I believe that you might have too much mud on the wall and are not achieving a true flat joint.

The reason they made drywall was to eliminate the coating of an entire wall to smoothing seams only, just saying.....
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:59 AM   #10
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Sorry man, i completly dis agree, respectfully.

Joins have smooth sanded plaster, wallboard has paper at a different texture, the point were this meets is sanded paper and also different textures, builders walk on the board when its stacked on the ground and drive the sand/stones on there shoes into it, they scratch it, drag it, chip it, dent it, carry things into the house and bang into it, bruise it with lifters, there is even manufactered marks in it.

Most houses this does not matter so much and normal lighting you may get away with it, but this house i am on you see everything, the worst sun on it you can get, i posted some pics under my (Windows Doors) Post. Floor to ceiling windows.

So a full skim to cover everything is my only option, that i feel content with anyway. The primer makes little difference under such conditions.

If a car has a chip in the paint and you re spray will this hide the chip??? no it wont, if you spray it ten times will that hide the chip, Nope!! If you fill up the chip, sand it smooth then spray it, What happens then, Oh look its gone.

Thats my aim and is working fantastic, My next house i might even miss the last coat and just finish it like this, Wouldnt miss a dam thing then, i am painting that one too so and awsome job they shall have, so help me god.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:19 AM   #11
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudstar View Post
Skim coating with mud with this method is a waste of time your better off to prime with quality prime, sand prime then paint. you will get the same results with half the effort.

If your having problems with your work showing through once painted I believe that you might have too much mud on the wall and are not achieving a true flat joint.

The reason they made drywall was to eliminate the coating of an entire wall to smoothing seams only, just saying.....
Well put.... if your seams are not flat skim coating will not do any good period.... skim coating does aid in hiding the texture on drywall paper where direct lighting or sunlight magnifies everything. If skim coating is required only hit the areas where lighting is a factor. Most times the prime sand & paint method is the best way. Good painters will sand before painting and in between coats of paint....if this is not done imperfections keep multiplying between each coat. We have all had painters follow our work and depending on their methods can make our work look good or worse.... I just hate when certain painters are hired out because of their shortcuts create such a mess of the finished product I leave.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:13 AM   #12
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


We have one builder that insist on level 5 and we give it to him, Ive tried to talk him into skimcoat plaster which we offer[best level 5 available ] but insist on mud. Weve primed and backrolled for 30 years and if you watch the process as it happens you will realize done correctly, its just as good as level 5 ,considering your work to level 4 is A+. Weve also rolled mud as seen in the video for 30 years,but only over painted surfaces for first coat ,then skimming twice by hand to achieve excellent results. We will also roll watered down dura and apply NU-WALL netting on plaster walls to repair, I see Fiba-fuse now has a similar product.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:44 PM   #13
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Unfortunatly for me the painters are using one of the cheapest sealer/undercoats around and they roll it out thin, the top coat is almost semi gloss and does not cover very well and shows roller and brush marks badly, last thing i need is anything i do to show up as well. Hence im hitting it with all i got this time around.

The customers have a lot of friends who will come visit and in my small town word of mouth is everything, its make or break.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:54 PM   #14
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Cazna, you are doing the right thing ,even if you lose a bit on your rate.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:40 AM   #15
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Thanks for the support DSJOHN

Its a rare and special breed that think like us

Did some more today, Man its sweet as, Sooo mint its minter than a garden full of mint.

Pole sanded a bit cause thats all it needs and the direct sun hit it and AWSOME i must say. Im a happy man, bring it on painters and bad lighting, Bring it on.
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:42 AM   #16
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


now i can't wait to try it. but i'm not sure when i will be doing a job that will even require it next.
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:27 AM   #17
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Just try it man, its a great trick, wish i had it up my sleeve years ago now. Gonna sand it up and the the builders will trim it out and in come the painters, Gonna be a great week
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:09 PM   #18
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


uh oh!! i hope it gets primed before the trim guys come in. i know i've dinged up my share of walls. especially with those long stretches of floppy baseboard.
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:23 PM   #19
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Synko T.I.P.S primer is pretty much a level 5. It has so much mud in it, when the t.i.p.s get's sanded, there is a lot more dust on the ground than usual.
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:47 PM   #20
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Re: Level 5, spraying mud???


Quote:
Originally Posted by cazna View Post
Unfortunatly for me the painters are using one of the cheapest sealer/undercoats around .

And making it your problem will put you out of business and the cheap a$$ painter will still be working. Time to teach the customer what a painter should do to cover the wall properly with the proper product.

JS
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