Joints humped, metal framing. Why?

joepro0000

Exactly, this is the problem! The hanger's mess up the joints when rushing.

Don, if you run a tape measure down the entire wall, do the studs land exactly in the middle of the 16 on center mark? Sometimes the joints on stand ups get humped out when there isn't much stud room. Alot of framers like to measure 16 over from the last stud, and this causes problems down the line of a long wall. eventually, you will loose a little, maybe space a stud 16 - 3/16" or 1/8" more and that adds up. I always use a 100 ft tape and lay out on the floor along side the studs and don't move it.

brian mulligan

Hi Don:

Screwing into the angled side of the metal stud causes the stud twist slightly because the angled side is rigid and has no give to it when a screw is inserted. If your taping a tapered joint and your using all purpose compound, the only other way you would create a hump is by not drawing enough compound out behind the tape when your applying the first coat. You sound like an good, experienced taper so I doubt this is the problem.

Durabond-Don

Thanks guys for your replies. It gets so frustrating, seeing the joints a mess before I even start. When doing a huge commercial job, I don't have the time to bust every joint out. But then they always blame the finisher.


Thanks Brian, Joe, CDS.

And Rockdaddy, I always dust off before I skim.

I am finishing a up a very big church. I never seen drywall so damp. I had to 4 coat the screws, with an extra coat on all joints, butts, and bead.

Most turned out very good. I got many compliments. But the front wall is humped. You can see it and feel it. Looked good before the paint. Thanks for all the possible causes. I learned allot.

I got to remember to take my camera Monday (my last day). If I remember, I will post pics. Im off to start a huge carpenter training school Tuesday, which I will probably be foreman.

rockdaddy

Steve and Brian have it right. Hi - Lows are killers.

Crazytaper

Thank you! I've found this happening more and more often lately. The hangers are screwing of the wrong side of the board first and twisting the metal. I can't float out every joint 18"! So you get that humpety-hump as you walk down the wall. blame it on the finishers- right?

eddie

I blame the problem on flimsy light gauge metal studs. When you first sheet is screwed to the stud, it sucks the stud to the rock, automatically presenting an uneven stud. The side your next sheet is going to be screwed to is already sticking out farther than the last sheet you just hung. Once a butt joint or flat in this case is uneven, it always will be. It's just a matter of how far you are willing to float it out. Not to mention hanging horizontally increases the structural strength compared to standing the rock vertically.

Quality1st

Eaxactly Eddie, well said. Standing the rock up is one way of doing it, but not the correct way. Ask any architect what the difference in strength ratio is. And if you give a damn, you,ll have it hung correctly. Nuff Said.

carpentaper

I think standing sheets up on steel stud framing is fine. The only thing the steel is there to support is the drywall. Any force strong enough to rack a concrete building over is not going to be protected by horizontally hung drywall. I would never stand up sheets in wood frame construction. In that case i agree 100% on horizontal hanging adding structural integrity. JMO

hjrdrywal

thas what i was thinking , some hangers don't realize it when they do hang the boards ,but now that the mtl studs have a creas in the middle you would think a hanger would figure out how to keep the joints in the middle of the stud ,and I have personaly done finshing and been there when the painters cut their paint and caused major flashing.when we run joints we try every possible way to give each step drying time .
+

atlasint1

You may want to check the sheetrock at the beginning of the factory recess. I have noticed on occasion that if you put a straightedge on the roll, it is slightly humped, that's why we always split our stand-up joints to 12 inches on either side prior to completion of level 5 finish (especially on light walls)

rockdaddy

When you are doing stand ups on metal it is critical to insure that the first screws sunk are the ones on the WEAK side of the flange. Make sure the whole seam is screwed off before driving the screws on the STRONG side or else you will end up with the strong side being higher than the weak side creating a HI - Low situation thus humping your joints. There is nothing wrong with the sheetrock. One of the reasons for standing up on metal is so that there is continuous framing where the boards are fastened. You just have to know how to apply properly.

evolve991

BINGO!!! And DON'T think for a minute that the hangers aren't aware of this fact. When you screw the wrong side of the stud or run the rock the wrong direction the screws spin out and/or pop. This applies mostly on light guage metal,heavy guage retains its tensile strength and doesn't buckle. I'm 80%residential/20%commercial and even I know this

__________________
Rockin' the suburbs since 9.9.1991 Shue Drywall .....Marylands Modern Rock Alternative....

canodrywallc

BRIAN MULLIGAN has the correct answer , vertical hanging in commercial work is common

joepro0000

Yes save this thread, this is very value-able info. Most hangers are not aware of the problem, and will not ever now if they are not told.

d-rock

All these assessments sound accurate and to add my two cents, the main reason the rock should be stood up on metal stud is for fire rating. It is U.L. tested this way, so technically it's how it should be hung. On wood framing fire rating is not an issue. It's always better to railroad boards on wood framing because of the inconsistency and shrink factor of lumber, ESPECIALLY bearing walls. However, even on wood framing, boards could be stood up on non bearing walls. As far as humps in joints on metal stud walls, often, on furred walls, the framing is braced back to the concrete or whatever is behind it. Carpenters sometimes don't take the time to run jet-line on the framing before they brace the framing, therefore creating humps and dips. No matter what, I always make sure my tapers finish wide, and after examining the walls, if i see dips i have them flank it out. Seems it's the only way to get a perfect finish.

detroittaper

Don, one thing you also have to consider is the effects of not maintaining a consistent temperature from the tape coat to sanding. If you tape/coat an area in cold temperatures, even if above freezing, then suddenly heat the building, the water will evaporate out of the mud so quickly it will swell the drywall joints. Working here in Michigan, we see it happen alot. Especially when the GC doesn't want to pay to heat buildings until it's absolutely necessary. Just something to consider.

Taper Rick

I have seen this problem consistently across the board with steel studs. Many times the studs are twisted and or improper hanging (soft side first is the correct way). Before finishing take a wipe down blade 23'' and check the flats. Almost every time the knife will rock on the flat. Silverstilts was right. You need to fill the low side with the boxes both coats. Then if the flat is not yet right you need to bust the flat out on the low side by hand. Most finishers know about ugly hour, but it can be minimized.

fenez

You guys do realize that to get a perfect finish you need to use plaster veneer, traditional drywal will always have inconsistancies that are out of the finishers control no matter how much care is taken, if a wall needs to be skimmed more than 2 times you should be veneering it.

akcajun

for all my walls i like to sand with a pole sander then hit it with a sponge.. you can normally tell if its humping...but you can always check it with a 12 or 14 to see if it rocks or shows low...I normally do level 5...and smooth wall no matter what texture is going on unless its a stomp..lol

brian mulligan

Hi Akcajun:

What is level 5?

Brian