Durabond-Don

Ok.

I have been a union commercial finisher for a long time. All metal stud framing, with sheets stood straight up.


Far too often, you think you done a great job only to see the joints humped after paint. Especially when looking sideways down the wall or in sunlight. And when you run your hand down the wall you can feel them.

Can you offer some possible causes to this? Maybe not squeezing enough mud when taping, thus humping the mud would be the only way to cover the tape?

btw. I am a hand taper/finisher. Very seldom are tools used on my jobs.

Kiwiman

I'm not experienced with metal studs but could it be the tape coat isn't bone dry before the next coat.

silverstilts

I think the humping of seams is the most common problem .... usually there is always a high side over metal framing , this can be cause because of the framing itself the studs in which the are fasten on to the top and bottom tracks. The only solution is to fill the low side of the joint and feather it out . It is so much harder to deceive the eye especially in hallways but it can be done ... Most tapers put to much 2ND coat on (humping their joints) and then not enough sanding... the best solution is not to overcoat and don't over sand.

Darren@Partners

Have seen the same thing on long walls. My only solution is to skim to level 5.

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Durabond-Don

Yes, level 5 helps, but that is mainly to give the walls the same texture, especially if the painter is skimpy with the paint.

But level 5 wont remove or hide humps.



I am thinking silverstilts got it right with his advice. Thanks guys.

Custom Drywall Svc.

i think kiwiman and stilts hit it on the nail...

two most common problems, wood or metal: not enough drying time, and not enough sanding.

MudMonkey

when i do stand up board I always double the width as if they were butt joints. The main reason you feel and see the bumps is that there are three studs. One on either side, half way over with a bevelled edge and then the problem...one stud in the center of the board pushing out on it. It happens because where you butt them up the edges are sucked down with the bevel but not the middle stud.

Mudstar

I have a question Durabond-Don Is the drywall fire rated? If so I've noticed with some manufactures that the bevel they press in, humps out beyond the bevel making it thicker then the rest of the sheet, leaving the taper to use more fill to hide beyond that bevel. I find that this is the only way to fix such an issue, treat the seam as a butt joint. Anyone else find this, in this case?

rockdaddy

sand the joints down before you skim.

Darren@Partners

I still maintain using durabond and setting type compounds causes a "swell" that is near impossible to sand out. Our level 5 is done over a nearly perfectly sanded level 4. Don says he can feel them. Can he feel them prior to them being painted? Are they "perfect" when sanded and then they hump later? This is this very reason we don't use Durabond or setting type on slick finishes. Many of you may argue this point. It may be a regional issue, but we just can't make a slick finish with anything but drying type compounds.

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Mudstar

Like I've said in an other thread durabond is not meant for drywall finishing its imposable to sand and finish properly it does not absorb second coat of regular compounds properly once dried ether. I agree with Darren knowing some of you would argue this point and are Durabond headed in there ways.

Steve

You might want to take a close look at the seams with a straight edge before taping. If the drywall hangers screwed the wrong sheet first it will twist the stud and create a hump. Sometimes you won't notice the hump until you've already finished. The wall can be framed perfectly straight with a laser guide and still look twisted if the hangers don't follow proper guidelines.

Darren@Partners

So, Mudstar, do you too feel there is a "swelling" of sorts that goes on down the road? That's what I seem to find. It looks great during the job, but 2 weeks or 2 months later, I can see every friggin spot a setting type was used. It is not imagination, too many other local guys have the same problem.

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Custom Drywall Svc.

I hate long walls like this, especially in commercial jobs (lobbys, hallways in particular)

we did a commercial building about 2 years ago, same thing as Darren described, as in it looks perfect during the job, even with straight edges....but 6 mos. later after walking to the long hallway on this particular job, you see humping, although minimal -- its still there.

drives me nuts. Even after spraying with a hamilton prep coat after level 5'ing everything. some ppl blamed the painter, some ppl blamed us......overall, not any average person will see it. but us construction types with eyes for detail WILL see it and it just looks bad if you can spot it.

in the end, im positive it was our fault, as in we should've taken more care you could say........more lights.....more leveling....etc......but jobs like this, its really hard to say, especially like darren mentioned when everything looks PERFECT 'during'..........

Mudstar

Not sure its swelling Darren. I wonder if when the prime and paint that go on cause this issue. let me explain what I'm thinking here. If you are using setting type compounds, which I don't agree on using, gets primed and painted does it absorb the same as the regular compound or even the drywall itself does? I think not, but is it possible that the prime and paint sit on top of the joint and build up even more sealing it off and the prime and paint on the drywall absorb shrinking the paper and gypsum beneath it. Or maybe the drywall your finishing on could have some moisture in it from sitting in suppliers warehouses then dry out slowly over time ones installed shrinking and the compound has dried first before the inner gypsum causing this issue. I guess the only way to figure this out is to do a moisture reading on the gypsum in the warehouse then afterward. I really believe its not the finishers or painters fault for this imperfection and we all that take pride in are work, do the best job possible with the materials supplied and its the nature of the work that we strive for the perfection we all so want. I'm sure that we try to make the wall as flat as possible as most of us are perfectionist and its the material at fault here so with that said finishing drywall is just that and not truly perfect. I hope we can move on from here.

Custom Drywall Svc.

i agree with you, as far as moisture levels being the culprit........although it makes sense, its very impractical sad to say for us to read moisture levels of every sheet of drywall.

i WISH suppliers would do this, but no way in hell......unfortunately.

but mudstar, i think you are right......

if its not as something as simple as i mentioned before, i.e. not allowing the finishing work to dry properly btwn coats, then it most likely has to do with moisture levels seeping out long afterwards..........

either way, its a lose-lose situation for us DC's.

Durabond-Don

You all make excellent points and I thank you for your replies.



I am about to start a stairway, that I just know there is no way to make it look right. How many of you can just look at the board before you start and just know it's going to be tough? It has very high walls, the joints are terrible, and add a ton of sunlight= I'm in for a mess.

I can usually tell just by looking at the joints if I am in for a rough time.


There are many factors that affect the board being humped or crowned. Bad framing, hanging, too much mud when taping (thus humping the joint to cover the tape), or when bedding (blocking) in, the taper also has a tendency to hump it on, not sanding enough.

I see many tapers just going through the motions. Tape, bed, skim, sand. Without any knowledge or cares about the finish product. They do every sheet the same process.

Speed is great. But maybe an extra 1-2 days to ensure quality is even better. I care about my work and I try to make sure the guys working for me do also.


This is an excellent website that I look forward to learning a few tricks and maybe passing a few on. One thing about drywall finishing, you can always learn more.

Custom Drywall Svc.

as far as the stairway is concerned (hopefully its not 'too big') depending on the curvature/radius of it, just accept the fact that you'll have to entirely skim the stairway walls at least 4-5 times. as well as the fact that you'll have to view it at least 6 times throughout the day, depending on where the sun is positioned and how the sunlight affects it.

I had a circular stairway that we finished on a big custom home months ago. when it was all said and done, my patchman ended up laying at least 5 skim coats, corner to corner on this entire stairway for it to look right. like i said, if your stairway is how i am thinking, youll have to view it multiple times, as in early morning....mid morning....noon......late noon.......evening (sunset) ......think you get my drift.

anyways, this website IS helpful Don........and im sure we all thank you for your comments......the usual crowd on here is MORE than helpful you'll find.

keep in mind, everyone on this site has a big ego....and thinks their way is the right way.

...but i never said that was a BAD thing! haha.......trust me.

good luck Don.

Durabond-Don

You sound like a man who cares about quality. And thanks for the welcome.

I am a union finisher, and contrary to many opinions, I also care about quality and am a hard worker. I seen a few negative comments about union workers, please allow me a few lines to defend a little.

I leave my house at 4:15 am. Drive 2 hours to work, put in a hard 8, drive 2 hours home, eat, shower and go to bed. Most of the other union workers I see, also work their a$$es off. We care about making the company money. I do not ever "milk" jobs. A profitable job/company, ensures me and my fellow union workers more work. I hate guys who feel they are doing the company a favor by being there. I feel privileged to earn a decent living for slinging mud.

Are there lazy union workers? Sure. But there are lazy non union workers as well. There are good/bad workers everywhere in all trades, and aspects of the working society.

Benny Hill once said something about people who assume.

brian mulligan

This could be caused by the sheetrockers. With metal studs if you screw off the rigid side of the stud first ( where the steel forms a right angle) rather than the flexible side it will cause this humping effect.