Butt Joints?

Brockster

Don't you guys look or feel for the hollow side of the butt and go from there?

JustMe

Butts have a hollow side? Is that dependent on how you put on first coat - with knife or with box? And the setting you're using on your box? Or are you talking about when the butts don't marry up to each other evenly?

Muddauber

yes!

Darren@Partners

My taper can see that low side from 5 feet away, me, I've actually still got to lay a 10 or 12 on it to see which side (if) needs the heavy fill.

markus

Mine is similar to other guys:
After the tape is dry we
-coat down the center with a 10 inch on 1 or full out
-next day both sides are ran on about a 2 with the 12 inch
then we let it set for a bit and skim the entire butt joint by hand. You need to make sure your mud is thin otherwise you will get pin holes. Try it out if you want. adios

rebel20

Hawk and trowel 3" each side german technology

rebel20

45 min mud no tape

MudMonkey

i go down each side with my 10" box, let it set up a bit then one down the middle with an 8" knife and wipe in the ends. Next day 12" box down both sides and wipe it in again with an 8 or 10" knife. I never have a bump...always finishes flush

Stormy_Ny

I think I have finally solved my problems with butt joints. At least when I am hanging. I no longer am butting them on the studs. I am ending them in the middle of the cavity, then using a 4"-6" piece of plywood to make the joint.

Just using this install make 100% easier and faster.

Whitey97

how many have cracked since you've done this?

how long does it take you in an entire house to cut 200 peices?

Stormy_Ny

I havent had any cracks at all ..... Cut what ?

I got the idea from Butttaper, I didnt go for there tool but incorporated there method.

http://www.butttaper.com/advantage.htm

Utilizing the ButtTaper system with the backer board in between the studs has the following advantages over the current conventional method of 2-1/16" tape over a butt joint on a wooden or steel stud:

• The backer board contains only 4 to 5% moisture while a wooden stud/joist contains 18 to 19%. Practically, no wood shrinkage to damage the butt joint.
• Since the butt joint is off the stud/joist, it is not subjected to any direct forces.
• The drywall is bonded to a minimum 4" backer board; a greater area of the drywall is bonded than on the 1-1/2" wooden stud/joist rendering a stronger installation as tested by the National Association of Home Builders at their Research Center. The ButtTaper system can withstand about 3,000 pounds more force in compression and 400 pounds more in tension than the traditional method on a stud. Please read the complete NAHB Test Report on this website.
• The butt joint boards have a clean undamaged edge. The edge has not been weakened by screws or nails allowing for a stronger more secure installation. The end paper is tapered down and is not loose; no need to cut a ‘V’ edge notch in the butt joint to prevent ridging.
• The butt boards are secured on a flat plane.
• Setting compounds can be economically used on all three finishing coats rendering a faster finishing process. Setting compounds such as Easy-Sand and DuraBond are not affected by humidity and moisture, one of the principal causes of drywall failure, and offer a stronger bond than joint compounds.
• Tremendous savings in labor and material. The creation of the tapered edge and the finishing process requires less than 2 minutes with very little compound. Faster for the sheetrockers; 2" on each side to properly screw the butt boards.
• No callbacks, and gains a competitive edge with a superior monolithic drywall finish resulting in a far superior appearance of the project; no crown or chair molding curvature. Window, door and base board casing is straight.
• Eliminates any butt joint debates with your customers, general contractors and painters. A more aesthetic drywall finish sure to please yourself and everyone else.
• Allows for the usage of glossy paints without the fear of shadowing and eliminates the necessity for texturing.

A+ Texture LLC

You guys need to check out these threads over at contractortalk.com.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f49/butt-shims-55172/ and
http://www.contractortalk.com/f49/fl...-boards-48938/
The second one especially, they go into detail on how to make good backer boards.

Stormy_Ny

I have found that just putting the butt in the middle of the cavity gives sufficient recess.

The problem is getting contractors to understand. I just went and looked at this job. Basement flooded gut and replace. The contractor wants to run the board vertically ..... 9'2" hieght. I suggested to 54" boards run on the flat and float the butt seams in the middle of the cavity..... WELL you should have heard the ignorant ass. Crap like that drives me CRAZY!

Darren@Partners

Stormy, seems you have a lot a Butt Joint problems. I agree in theory about Breaking between studs/joists with buttboard, especially if has a 1/16 or 1/8 strip at the edge (to concave the joint). We don't really have any troubles by breaking on the framing, though. Once in while one has to be floated further than usual, but no biggie. But running all three coats with setting type and sanded walls will cause you the more problems.

As for glossy paints and shadowing, nothing will cure that except Level 5.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

Stormy_Ny

Why does it seem I have a lot of problems? It is a faster and better method both in hanging and finishing.

I hang, finish and paint most of my jobs ..... Most of my paint finish has been eggshell ..... Level 4 finish with no shows ......

My method is making the seam using the backer board leaving 1/4 gap. Cut edges on 45, pre fill with Durabond then finish it as a regular seam, I only use durabond to fill. After the first one I was hooked. I do a lot of redo's older buildings framed up with rough cut timbers.

Hey you want to stick your head in the sand and play the "Old School" game it's on you ...... Someone will love to kick you in the ass.

A+ Texture LLC

Stormy, I don't see how your ending up with a recessed joint on a flat piece of plywood, unless your cutting at a 45 or notching it. Please elaborate. The backer boards in the above threads and the type you can buy all have a recess so it sucks the board back making a recess similar to a flat. Supposedly you can run your box over them just like a flat. Also, you seem a little argumentative for someone just offering their two cents. You know that is the point of these forums. Were not here to argue, were here to listen, learn and help.

Stormy_Ny

I think it is the fact that I am ending the sheet in the middle of the cavity, it seem to leave a little hollow in seam it self. Put a 4' level across it and it is just the perfect little depression you want.

As far as being a little argumentative .......


I have been in this game a long time boys. The reason I still have work coming in is because of my quality. So when a cyber professional takes a swipe ... I will swipe back. I have lurked on this site for a while and know who the know it all's are.

Darren@Partners

Kick my ass? Head in the sand? Kinda nervy for 7 time poster.

Yes, it sounds like you have had butt joints crack and flash. My point is, I don't. Unless there is a movement issue, virtually never have a butt joint crack. And flashing is only an issue when some dumbass tries to put on a glossier paint than a level 4 is spec'd for.

Someone with so many years in the biz would probably know that is Definitions for Levels fo Finish call a Level 4 suitable for flat paints only. Anything with more sheen is recommended to get a Level 5. My finish will take an eggshell most of the time, but I still skim critical light walls in those cases.

Butt boards work, I suppose, but the added cost in this "competitive market" makes them cost prohibitive IMO. We can agree to disagree. Using butt boards cannot be faster for the hangers, to install something extra takes time. Most I've seen are made of pressed composite wood and are much harder to get the screw to set properly and basically an pain in the a$$.

Respectfully,
Your know-it-all cyber professional

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

Stormy_Ny

Oh so it is post count that matters and not real experience in the trade ?

Please show me anywhere in my posts that I have alluded to having a problem with butts...... They are time consuming and in this "competitive" market I think a 12" seam is better then a 24" with no roll.

That is the way I have been doing it for 20 plus years .... I have never done a textured job.

It is faster to hang because there is no exact cutting except for the last board in the run. Putt it up ...screw it up ....cut in place to where you want it....pre cut backer board and the next board is easier to place because of the expanded surface area. The little things ......

Darren@Partners

There's one place...

And in the next post, the description of the benefits led me to believe you had lots of issues, but I see now that post is probably buttbackers ad. So excuse me.

And yes you save one measurement and cut on the first sheet, but still adding an additional piece. So the time saved on the hanging, IMO, is a wash at best.

If your market isn't prone to texture and all the work is sanded slick, then buttboards are probably a good choice for you. If you've lurked the site, then you've seen how much different things are in different markets.

And no, post count may not make me an expert. But what does is having 20+ years in the trade. And if anybody thinks that they "know it all", they'll pretty soon found out they don't. I still learn new methods, some right here on this site. You also bump into an a$$hole every now and again. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers and good luck.

__________________
www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com