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Butt Joints?

28K views 60 replies 27 participants last post by  icerock drywall 
#1 ·
Just wondering how everyone finishes Butt joints by hand or with boxes

I set by hand with a hawk and trowel and use chemical set plaster 45 minute (base compound) for all coats and air dry final coat (topping)
1st coat tape the joint (base compound)
2nd coat Skim the tape 12" wide down the middle (base compound)
3rd coat Set 12" left and right of the tape (24" wide base compound)
4th coat set 12" down the middle and 12" left and right (36" wide topping)

I’m about to start setting boxes could I do something similar?
 
#4 ·
Im from Australia and its very cut throat and we sett a standard house in one day sand off the next so we really have to use setting compounds otherwise there is no money in it

for flats
tape (setting compound)
8" 2nd coat (setting compound)
10-12" final coat (air dry)
sand off

So I would really need to be using setting compounds in tapers and boxes
does any one do this? any hints or tips
 
#7 ·
I’m not saying we are quick and ruff
But it’s what they are teaching from day one in the technical collage
And specified from the suppliers here
Base cote to bed the tapes and for 2nd coat
Topping to finish
They only really sell Base cote, Cornice cement and Topcote

So do you all use air dry for all coats?
Is it 24 hour drying time?
 
#10 ·
Yes, I air dry for all coats. It's always dry by the next day, it's been that way for 15 years straight!
That is really good to know!
The manufacturers over here specify setting compound (hot mud) to bed tapes and for 2nd coat so we have to comply or they won’t guarantee their product
So you all set one coat per day?
What about small jobs 1 or 2 rooms?
 
#11 ·
When I coat butt seams, I do it several ways depending on what the job calls for. I may : tape normally then check the butt joint with a 3 foot level, then fill on both sides of the tape with compound (lite), then feather both edges, then with 1 or 2 swipes finish with a 2 foot knife up the middle. Or use a double seven inch box or double ten then to finish a double 12!!
 
#14 · (Edited)
A butt joint can be nicely coated with boxes after joint tape is dry as follows:

For ceiling spray-
1) Split the butts with a 10" box set on "0" or wide open. To do this just run the box down each side of the tape with the wheel on the
center of the tape.
2) Run down the center of the butt with a 12" box set on "1"...note:you want to go down the centers with the box set so it is leaving just enough mud to cover the tape
3) Cross off the ends of the butts by hand

For knock down-
1) Same as above

For orange peel
1) Split the butts with a 10" box set on "0" or wide open running wheel down center of tape
2) Split the butts again with a "12" box set on "0" running wheel down center of tape
3) Coat the center of the butts with a "12" knife by hand
4) Cross off the ends of the butts by hand

For paint smooth
1) Split the butts with a 10" box set on "0"
2) Run down the center of the butts with a 12" box set on "1"
3) Cross off the ends of the butts by hand
4) Give the butts a finnish coat by hand

This sounds like extra steps but when doing a lot of ceilings or a big job that's when there is a huge difference on making the butts go easier.

Some minor tips are: Always put the box tight up to the corners when coating especially first time with the 10"

Always start and pull off within 2" of the seams recess

For nice smooth joints: when prefilling before taping get in a habit of filling all the butts automatically.
When wiping tape don't wipe too tight.
 
#15 ·
A butt joint can be nicely coated with boxes after joint tape is dry as follows:


For paint smooth
1) Split the butts with a 10" box set on "0"
2) Run down the center of the butts with a 12" box set on "1"
3) Cross off the ends of the butts by hand
4) Give the butts a finnish coat by hand

T
That's just about what I do except that I use the 12" box on the center AND the outside edges of the butts on the second pass.
 
#19 ·
last summer i subbed out finishing to a couple of guys who coated there butts without doing a final finish by hand the ones on the ceiling hid all right as i did a k/d but the wall ones needed a skim after prime, was not impressed and got rid of them after the 2nd house, can't figure out your time savings by the two coats with the box and a skim as compared to a 30" base coat with a skim over that for a final.
 
#20 ·
You have to take into consideration that with a box I can coat each side of the butt with one stroke that takes about 5 seconds for each side (10sec per butt) on first step. Second step when coating down center is about 5 seconds. Third step is cross off the ends by hand like coating a row of screws 5 sec. These are perfect butts for Ceiling Spray or Knock Down. When on an apartment or big house with this finish you can really be efficient with a smaller tape crew properly using these tools.

For orange peel and smooth do the same as above but give it a finish coat by hand and you still gain production.
 
#25 ·
Mine is similar to other guys:
After the tape is dry we
-coat down the center with a 10 inch on 1 or full out
-next day both sides are ran on about a 2 with the 12 inch
then we let it set for a bit and skim the entire butt joint by hand. You need to make sure your mud is thin otherwise you will get pin holes. Try it out if you want. adios
 
#29 ·
I think I have finally solved my problems with butt joints. At least when I am hanging. I no longer am butting them on the studs. I am ending them in the middle of the cavity, then using a 4"-6" piece of plywood to make the joint.

Just using this install make 100% easier and faster.
 
#40 · (Edited)
I think I have finally solved my problems with butt joints. At least when I am hanging. I no longer am butting them on the studs. I am ending them in the middle of the cavity, then using a 4"-6" piece of plywood to make the joint.

Just using this install make 100% easier and faster.
There's one place...

And in the next post, the description of the benefits led me to believe you had lots of issues, but I see now that post is probably buttbackers ad. So excuse me.

And yes you save one measurement and cut on the first sheet, but still adding an additional piece. So the time saved on the hanging, IMO, is a wash at best.

If your market isn't prone to texture and all the work is sanded slick, then buttboards are probably a good choice for you. If you've lurked the site, then you've seen how much different things are in different markets.

And no, post count may not make me an expert. But what does is having 20+ years in the trade. And if anybody thinks that they "know it all", they'll pretty soon found out they don't. I still learn new methods, some right here on this site. You also bump into an a$$hole every now and again. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers and good luck.
 
#31 ·
I havent had any cracks at all ..... Cut what ?

I got the idea from Butttaper, I didnt go for there tool but incorporated there method.

http://www.butttaper.com/advantage.htm

Utilizing the ButtTaper system with the backer board in between the studs has the following advantages over the current conventional method of 2-1/16" tape over a butt joint on a wooden or steel stud:
  • The backer board contains only 4 to 5% moisture while a wooden stud/joist contains 18 to 19%. Practically, no wood shrinkage to damage the butt joint.
  • Since the butt joint is off the stud/joist, it is not subjected to any direct forces.
  • The drywall is bonded to a minimum 4" backer board; a greater area of the drywall is bonded than on the 1-1/2" wooden stud/joist rendering a stronger installation as tested by the National Association of Home Builders at their Research Center. The ButtTaper system can withstand about 3,000 pounds more force in compression and 400 pounds more in tension than the traditional method on a stud. Please read the complete NAHB Test Report on this website.
  • The butt joint boards have a clean undamaged edge. The edge has not been weakened by screws or nails allowing for a stronger more secure installation. The end paper is tapered down and is not loose; no need to cut a ‘V’ edge notch in the butt joint to prevent ridging.
  • The butt boards are secured on a flat plane.
  • Setting compounds can be economically used on all three finishing coats rendering a faster finishing process. Setting compounds such as Easy-Sand and DuraBond are not affected by humidity and moisture, one of the principal causes of drywall failure, and offer a stronger bond than joint compounds.
  • Tremendous savings in labor and material. The creation of the tapered edge and the finishing process requires less than 2 minutes with very little compound. Faster for the sheetrockers; 2" on each side to properly screw the butt boards.
  • No callbacks, and gains a competitive edge with a superior monolithic drywall finish resulting in a far superior appearance of the project; no crown or chair molding curvature. Window, door and base board casing is straight.
  • Eliminates any butt joint debates with your customers, general contractors and painters. A more aesthetic drywall finish sure to please yourself and everyone else.
  • Allows for the usage of glossy paints without the fear of shadowing and eliminates the necessity for texturing.
 
#33 ·
I have found that just putting the butt in the middle of the cavity gives sufficient recess.

The problem is getting contractors to understand. I just went and looked at this job. Basement flooded gut and replace. The contractor wants to run the board vertically ..... 9'2" hieght. I suggested to 54" boards run on the flat and float the butt seams in the middle of the cavity..... WELL you should have heard the ignorant ass. Crap like that drives me CRAZY!
 
#34 ·
Stormy, seems you have a lot a Butt Joint problems. I agree in theory about Breaking between studs/joists with buttboard, especially if has a 1/16 or 1/8 strip at the edge (to concave the joint). We don't really have any troubles by breaking on the framing, though. Once in while one has to be floated further than usual, but no biggie. But running all three coats with setting type and sanded walls will cause you the more problems.

As for glossy paints and shadowing, nothing will cure that except Level 5.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Why does it seem I have a lot of problems? It is a faster and better method both in hanging and finishing.

I hang, finish and paint most of my jobs ..... Most of my paint finish has been eggshell ..... Level 4 finish with no shows ......

My method is making the seam using the backer board leaving 1/4 gap. Cut edges on 45, pre fill with Durabond then finish it as a regular seam, I only use durabond to fill. After the first one I was hooked. I do a lot of redo's older buildings framed up with rough cut timbers.

Hey you want to stick your head in the sand and play the "Old School" game it's on you ...... Someone will love to kick you in the ass.
 
#36 ·
Stormy, I don't see how your ending up with a recessed joint on a flat piece of plywood, unless your cutting at a 45 or notching it. Please elaborate. The backer boards in the above threads and the type you can buy all have a recess so it sucks the board back making a recess similar to a flat. Supposedly you can run your box over them just like a flat. Also, you seem a little argumentative for someone just offering their two cents. You know that is the point of these forums. Were not here to argue, were here to listen, learn and help.
 
#37 ·
I think it is the fact that I am ending the sheet in the middle of the cavity, it seem to leave a little hollow in seam it self. Put a 4' level across it and it is just the perfect little depression you want.

As far as being a little argumentative .......


Darren@Partners wrote:
Stormy, seems you have a lot a Butt Joint problems.
I have been in this game a long time boys. The reason I still have work coming in is because of my quality. So when a cyber professional takes a swipe ... I will swipe back. I have lurked on this site for a while and know who the know it all's are.
 
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