Which brand is best to get

caveman

I am going to be ordering a full set of automatics and i was wondering what everybody is using what is good and what sucks also I was wondering if anybody out there likes tapetech's mudrunner if I should get that or stick with the anglebox. Also where can I get the best deal I found als tapingand tool seems to have the best deal out there on tapetech and northstar. does anybody know anywhere else has great deals if I buy from al's I have to pay mn state tax cause I live in mn

1wallboardsman

TapeTech is the standard, and has always been overpriced, their parts are to the moon also. I can match Al's prices on Tapetech. I don't handle Nstar anymore, their "Simply the Best" is meaningless because they "require" their dealers (who have never put on a yard of tape) to represent them as such. Truth is, they are prettier then they are effective and usable.

The flat boxes are sloppy because Nstar places the bottom plate up high, and this causes build up and overrun of the shoes. Lighten up with the pressure, and then you aren't doing a good coat either.

All of their extending handles are way overpriced, and when you get them out in the field, you find that they are too short. Although they did take my ideas for a nailspotter and second longer box handle, they forgot that I also suggested making the original box handle shorter so that you could get around some closets with it, and to make the second box handle longer so that it could extend to 84". Adding the nailspotter was good, changing its design was stupid, because it detracts from the tools workability, and your ability to produce excellent work with it.

Their heads are too big, too clunky, and more work to pull through top angles. In copying other dumbassed manufacturers in the placement of the crook (too close to the angle ball) their angle head handle gives you a distinct lack of range in workability. The manufacturers don't realize that you may want to reach down a high wall 10 feet from standing on a perry to glaze 18 feet of top angle without moving the scaffold. They also are clueless that you might want to glaze 10' from the floor without stilts on.

Ditto for Blueline, Premier made this dumb move first, and blueline kept it in their ignorance.

NorthStar also gets the award for the most ridiculous prices on parts, right behind Ames/TapeTech. They all share the bad attitude (screw workability, we want your cash), award.

This is most evident when you consider who their preferred dealers are, supply house guys that know squat about the trade and less about the performance of taping tools. But, the manufacturers insist that you pay these guys an extra $500 - $1,000 so that they will hang tools on the wall that you can overpay for when you want to buy some. Just don't expect that the grocery clerk on the other side of the counter can tell you how to best use them for making you some money. The industry obviously doesn't really give a rat's ass about that. Just ask the clerk a few questions.... see?

Goldblatt has decided that they would like to make more money on parts, and you should have to buy their parts for their tools. So they have set about re-designing everything so that they can charge you more for maintenence parts, and you will need them more frequently. Starting with the same tool for a better price, they now are changing everything so that it doesn't work as well, but you do have to buy their handles too.

First they ruined the flat boxes with an ineffective plastic blade holder that requires you replace the whole thing with the blade, and proprietery shoes, cost $20 to change the blade. Then they turned to the Nailspotter, eliminating the flexible link that you need to link it to an aluminum (God give us strength) handle that is 4 feet (too long) long. So that you will have to buy that handle with the Nailspotter, even if it is the first thing that you will throw in the dumpster, they learned this from TapeTech.

Then they went to the angle heads, copying Nstar for the big clunking and heavy design, they made the blades wider (more likely to float) so that those no good TapeTech dealers couldn't buy their parts to repair your TapeTech tools with, potentially saving you some money. And overall, made the tool more expensive to produce, hence the price goes up. So much for the same tools at a better price.

They do have the best taper that you buy though, since it is the same design and quality as everyone else while still retailing for $1,050. But a lot of guys prefer to pay more for the same thing, so they buy the other brands at $1,300 thinking they are getting something better.

There are two tapers on the market that are sub-standard, TapeWorm and Premier/Blueline, all others are same thing different colors and prices.

There is no longer a single brand that can win the best workability for the best price award, to be able to offer such a set, I have to put Goldblatt's taper, pump, roller with Precision taping tools flatboxes, anglebox and heads, with my own extension handles.

It is sad, but maybe if the finishers stop buying from the bad attitude manufacturers, they might start actually listening to some drywall finishers on the design of drywall tools.

This is something that hasn't happened since the Ames brothers sold out of Ames in the late 70's.

jdl

tapingtoolvirgin

hey caveman, obviously 1wallsboardman knows more about different types of tools that work best, but i can tell you that i have bought my tools from him and have nothing but good things to say. he answered any email (and there were lots) and any exchanges i needed done. Also i checked a lot of other sites for prices and no one could beat him.Good luck finding the set you want. josh

caveman

I pm'd you

Al Taper

Whats your take on Columbia or drywall master?

joepro0000

Hey guys -

I have a Columbia 10" box and 12" Box with the Pump, bought it from All-Wall for 1000.00. Best tools I used, I mean really, there medium priced, and they get the job done. I use my 10 first, 12 second, and final coat by hand. Don't be suckered for the high-priced tools, really, they work pretty much the same. I do recommend buying the "hell-bent" handle for the boxes, it is easier. Had them for 2-1/2" years.

For angle head, I bought the cheap 2.5" angle head made from FinishPro , with the roller, and the angle box. For the price, it works great. I use the roller first, then glaze with the 2.5 anglehead. Then I run a second coat with the anglehead box, works great. I mean, it gets the job done, basically. Had it for 1 year now.

I used the mudrunner before, Ames version, and it is easier, but its tricky to get used too. All in all, I'd stick with the angle box. You still need to put a final skim coat by hand to get a perfect finish on the angles, meaning if you hold a lamp sideways, or on the bottom shinning up, the finish would be flawless.

My suggestion -

Give FinishPro a chance, or Columbia.

caveman

Thanks for the replys guys keep them coming I was wondering if anybody has used the columbia full line and what they thought like I said I have been a tapetech guy for years and its hard for me to move away from them. Its just that I want a high capacity box and I never run tapetechs before it looks kind of funny and the blade set up looks a little differnent I am not sure if its worth a sh!t. I got to run the mudrunner the other day and I am sold on it so I gotta get that I also ran the power assist boxes and they are ok I think I can blow those away running my standard old style push boxes they are nice you dont have to pus really much at all just seems slow going with them what does everybody think about all this out there theres way to many choices out there.

taper71

I have Columbias full line, Bazooka , pump, 10" fat boy and 12" regular boxes, angle heads 2", 3" and 3 1/2", angle box, and the new extension handles ( the older ones suck). I love these tools. I've had my set for three years and they are still going strong and give an excellent finish. I use the Apla Tech Cannon on my corners with the 3 1/2" head and only use the angle box on the back side of closets and door jambs with the 2 " head, . Corners come out very nice . The boxes work very well and with the 10" fat boy I can go a little further before running back to the pump. I use the regular 12" box as it is just a tight skim coat so do not need the extra weight of the fat boy .

Mudstar

I use Columbia boxes and find they give the best finish. There taper is pretty slick and seems lighter then the rest but I could be wrong. I'd like to know how there inside corner roller works as I use the blueline one only because I was told it handles slightly out of square angles better but I could be wrong on that too. If some one knows better speakup.

taper71

I have the columbia Roller, drywall master roller, and tape tech roller and by far Columbias is way better. Smoother roll with less weight. The only problem I have with it is it doesn't take to well to screws not properly set in the corners. This damages the delrin wheels and will cause problems if not inspected regularly and replaced.

damudman

I have drywall master boxes, pump and angle head and box.
I have the northstar bazooka.
Bazook never had any trouble with it runs great. $600.00 inculding shipping.
drywall master set $1000.00 inculding shipping. Love them all.
I use a combo flusher for tape in coners then glaze with my angle head 2.5
I do have the hell bent 54 in. handle, nice handle.
I also have a 6 foot handle and a 30 in. handle all handles are drywall master.
Best money I have spent. I got them all on ebay, all were new.

1wallboardsman

Columbia is all original design and the company only suffers from the same bad attitude in thinking that you should pay a know-nothing clerk an extra $800 to have them.

Let me ask you for some feedback on this?

If Lowe's or Home Depot carried a a full line of automatic taping tools at 25% less then the usual inflated prices that you have now, and sales were supported by a rental program that would allow you to try before you buy, besides the usual sniff and feel test. Would you be buying them there?

Of course, training would also be supported with "how-to" DVD's with both rental and sales.

What would you say, I think that you would be taking your tool business there, am I right?

jdl

Mudstar

No. I'm all for the Ma & Pa type shops. Its places like those big box stores that killed retailers.

Al Taper

No i try not to buy big ticket tools at them stores..

joepro0000

I think the mud-runner is too expensive and a waste of money. If your hands are muddy, or wet, its does get hard to twist it to let the mud out. Angle Boxs are good, you just have to have practive with them.

A.T.T.-Craig

I've got to jump in here to potentially defend myself.
I'm a new poster, but been looking at this site since it was open for business. My name is Craig and I've been at Al's for over 10 years. In that time I have been in contact with over 8000 individual drywall contractors, and done repairs to over 3000 Automatic Taping tools.

With that said, I would hope that Jon isn't trying to pursuade anyone away from dealing w/ us (Al's) by putting our name in next to these comments about how he feels about others selling the same items he has.

No, I personally, have not "run a yard of tape". But dealing w/ thousands of contractors I have learned to listen to what does, and does not work. The owner "Al" , has run miles of tape and does understand what all the tradesmen deal with in a day. I have taken that knowledge from listening to become someone who knows and understands the tools.

I have got to say, my opinion on which tools to recommend is as far away as to what Jon and the rest of my customers would recommend. These are the tools I refuse to carry, because of their poor quality.

caveman

No I want to buy from where I get the best customer service so when I have a problem somebody there knows what the hell they are talking about but I do like the try before you buy idea.

caveman

What brand do you suggest and why?

A.T.T.-Craig

To be honest. For the past 8 years our company focused on the sale of Tapetech tools. They are the industries standard, everyone knows their name. And they worked. They also offered the best "promotions" in the industry.( Free auto tapers for "super" set orders or cash back rebates, which will never happen again.)
Over the past year, we began noticing more frequent repairs coming in from tapetech tools that were only a year or 2 old. Plus, numerous warranty claims on thier extendable handle, roller and mudrunner. These warranty problems have passed for now, but we are finding that the problem was they kept changing thier parts supplier. (China and Taiwan) Also, almost every newer bazooka repair of theirs has needed new side plates because the mud has pitted through from the inside out.
Another "basic" reason for not putting tapetech on the top of the list is I'm not sure they will be around in the coming years. Tapetech is operated by ames holding corp. which also operates over 200 ames rental stores nationwide. Ames rental is where there money really comes from and rumors are they are 50-60% down in the last couple years. And there has been alot of shake-ups in the corp. in 2008. Remember, these are my opinions and not based entirely on fact. (dont want to get sued by ames).

Sorry my breif explanation is getting really long. I'll try to break it down what tools I prefer.
Auto Taper- NorthStar. (runs smooth out of the box. Doesn't need a break in period. I've haven't seen as many of these come into the shop for repair over the last 5 yrs.)
Angle Box-Toss up. These never come back for repair. Go Tapetech or Northstar.
Angle Roller-Northstar. Tapetechs wheel axel bolts are still breaking and cost $12 to repair. Northstar uses a standard 1/4-20 s.s. hex head bolt you can pick up at any hardware store.
Angle heads-Northstar by far. Even the past 6 years I've had to sell the northstar heads w/ the Tapetech sets at the customers request. They also come in for adjustment far less frequently. They have a huge following.
Flat Boxes-Toss up. Tapetech doesn't "pre-bow" the brass blade holder like Northstar does, but after some break in the tapetech's get a slight bow in them. (if there's no bow, there's no adjustment)
Box Handles- Tapetech. The standard non-adjustable hardley have any parts to wear out. All adjustable's will need an internal rebuild every year or two.
Pumps- Toss up. I don't get alot of repairs on either of them and if you take the easy clean tube off once a week, it will remain easy clean, and rebuilding them can be done quickly and cheaply at home.

Price wise, the northstar sets are less expensive than tapetech, which is why I am recommending the Northstar. They also have the strongest extendable angle tool handles out there.
Durability, which is really what counts, has been Northstar. When northstar first came out about 7 years ago, I didn't think we needed another tapetech copycat but they have proven me wrong w/ thier quality. They also had been overpriced, but are now priced w/ the industry standard.

Sorry I rambled soo long. Feel free to ask me any other questions.

-Craig

1wallboardsman

So, at the end of the day, the best you can do is issue the standard Ames talking points, without giving us detailed examples of the "poor quality".



Originally Posted by 1wallboardsman
TapeTech is the standard, and has always been overpriced, their parts are to the moon also. I can match Al's prices on Tapetech. I don't handle Nstar anymore, their "Simply the Best" is meaningless because they "require" their dealers (who have never put on a yard of tape) to represent them as such. Truth is, they are prettier then they are effective and usable.

The flat boxes are sloppy because Nstar places the bottom plate up high, and this causes build up and overrun of the shoes. Lighten up with the pressure, and then you aren't doing a good coat either.


All of their extending handles are way overpriced, and when you get them out in the field, you find that they are too short. Although they did take my ideas for a nailspotter and second longer box handle, they forgot that I also suggested making the original box handle shorter so that you could get around some closets with it, and to make the second box handle longer so that it could extend to 84". Adding the nailspotter was good, changing its design was stupid, because it detracts from the tools workability, and your ability to produce excellent work with it.

Their heads are too big, too clunky, and more work to pull through top angles. In copying other dumbassed manufacturers in the placement of the crook (too close to the angle ball) their angle head handle gives you a distinct lack of range in workability. The manufacturers don't realize that you may want to reach down a high wall 10 feet from standing on a perry to glaze 18 feet of top angle without moving the scaffold. They also are clueless that you might want to glaze 10' from the floor without stilts on.

Ditto for Blueline, Premier made this dumb move first, and blueline kept it in their ignorance.

NorthStar also gets the award for the most ridiculous prices on parts, right behind Ames/TapeTech. They all share the bad attitude (screw workability, we want your cash), award.

This is most evident when you consider who their preferred dealers are, supply house guys that know squat about the trade and less about the performance of taping tools. But, the manufacturers insist that you pay these guys an extra $500 - $1,000 so that they will hang tools on the wall that you can overpay for when you want to buy some. Just don't expect that the grocery clerk on the other side of the counter can tell you how to best use them for making you some money. The industry obviously doesn't really give a rat's ass about that. Just ask the clerk a few questions.... see?

Goldblatt has decided that they would like to make more money on parts, and you should have to buy their parts for their tools. So they have set about re-designing everything so that they can charge you more for maintenence parts, and you will need them more frequently. Starting with the same tool for a better price, they now are changing everything so that it doesn't work as well, but you do have to buy their handles too.

First they ruined the flat boxes with an ineffective plastic blade holder that requires you replace the whole thing with the blade, and proprietery shoes, cost $20 to change the blade. Then they turned to the Nailspotter, eliminating the flexible link that you need to link it to an aluminum (God give us strength) handle that is 4 feet (too long) long. So that you will have to buy that handle with the Nailspotter, even if it is the first thing that you will throw in the dumpster, they learned this from TapeTech.

Then they went to the angle heads, copying Nstar for the big clunking and heavy design, they made the blades wider (more likely to float) so that those no good TapeTech dealers (Goldblatt's attitude, not mine, I think all taping tool dealers are no good)
couldn't buy their parts to repair your TapeTech tools with, potentially saving you some money. And overall, made the tool more expensive to produce, hence the price goes up. So much for the same tools at a better price.

They do have the best taper that you buy though, since it is the same design and quality as everyone else while still retailing for $1,050. But a lot of guys prefer to pay more for the same thing, so they buy the other brands at $1,300 thinking they are getting something better.

There are two tapers on the market that are sub-standard, TapeWorm and Premier/Blueline, all others are same thing different colors and prices.

There is no longer a single brand that can win the best workability for the best price award, to be able to offer such a set, I have to put Goldblatt's taper, pump, roller with Precision taping tools flatboxes, anglebox and heads, with my own extension handles.

It is sad, but maybe if the finishers stop buying from the bad attitude manufacturers, they might start actually listening to some drywall finishers on the design of drywall tools.

This is something that hasn't happened since the Ames brothers sold out of Ames in the late 70's.

A few points, that you forgot to address.


jdl