9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor

 
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:11 PM   #1
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9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


Hey guys I'm bidding a 2000 sq ft home with a 3 car garage, there will be no floor trim and the builder wants it finished right to the floor, so not only would I have the bevel to fill at the bottom I'd have to fill the remaining gap. I would like to not spend days bending over so I was wondering the best approach as far as hanging. The garage and 25% of the interior is 9', 25% of interior is 10', and about half of interior is 12'. Heres what I was thinking...
12' Ceilings, 54" board along top, then 2- 48" boards with the bottom 6" or so ripped off, try to use scrap for windows etc.
10' ceilings, use 10' panels vertical setting right on the floor, and use hot mud to prefill the gap left at the top.
9' ceilings, Use the 10's vertical again.
I know it's not generally proper to hang vertical but in this situation I think it might be better. Please let me know what you guys think.

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Old 05-28-2009, 01:21 PM   #2
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


Vertical,or stand ups, is fine as long as the studs fall on 16" centers properly. You may want to stack the 12 foot rooms to avoid the gap on the floor. The gap at the ceiling/wall would need filled in any case. Just a thought from a hanger.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:04 PM   #3
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


I think you should charge the SOB double.

But it sounds like a plan though.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:10 PM   #4
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


I wouldn't do stand-ups. Laying the rock in direct contact with the floor would also be a mistake. Once the plates dry out and the building settles even ever so slightly, your taper joint at 4' up will rope. Allow at least 1/4 - 1/2" at the bottom, even if you have to prefill, tack strip will cover anyway, right? But back to the stand-ups, if these walls are sanded slick and on high light areas, the vertical joints will flash. If he's a PITA about this floor trim thing, you'd better Level 5 any vertically hung rock. JMO

PS: I'd definitely charge extra as you're doing a bunch of extra work and will have extra mud and tape in it as well.
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:09 AM   #5
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


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Originally Posted by Darren@Partners View Post
I wouldn't do stand-ups. Laying the rock in direct contact with the floor would also be a mistake. Once the plates dry out and the building settles even ever so slightly, your taper joint at 4' up will rope. Allow at least 1/4 - 1/2" at the bottom, even if you have to prefill, tack strip will cover anyway, right? But back to the stand-ups, if these walls are sanded slick and on high light areas, the vertical joints will flash. If he's a PITA about this floor trim thing, you'd better Level 5 any vertically hung rock. JMO

PS: I'd definitely charge extra as you're doing a bunch of extra work and will have extra mud and tape in it as well.
exactly.

your job is dead if your sheets touch that floor, hah. maybe not after the job....but 6 mos to a year later you're gonna get 'that call' that is the WORST for us drywall contractors.

the joints will SURELY ridge, or what Darren calls -- "roping." My hangers never touch the floor, no matter what situation. tension from any sort of settling is the first thing i try to determine and diagnose before any job....its just obviously the absolute worst for us DC's -- and we cant do a thing about it but just try the BEST we can to 'minimize' nature........

and youll find that profit you made (hope you will even make a profit, during these times) is going to dwindle down as you repair these mistakes for free in the future. Trust me.

so yes....charge extra. this is exactly why.

people will say because of the extra labor involved, mmm...yea......but a larger percentage is for the risk. thats just me though...my pricing methods usually involve calculating the potential risk on any given job versus the actual, physical obstacles.

also, make sure to have an exclusion in all your contracts that state how all your prices are quoted assuming standard baseboards and how special situations (such as yours) must be notified to you ahead of time and priced alternately. This has protected me in my own contracts time after time. people get a drywall contract from me and wonder why it is 4 pages long after they read the price and scope of work in the first paragraph on page one. it never hurts to protect yourself, believe me.

and as far as physically attacking this situation (theres gonna be probabaly a majority of people on here that will NOT like my answer) this is why you have hangers. if you are too worried about the physical toll it will have on yourself, why dont you just have (or sounds like you need to hire) hangers for your situation?

then if you are one of the types that insist on doing it yourself for quality control purposes (i cant blame you), then hire someone to HELP you and do the 'grudge' work near the bottom of the floors. theres plenty of good hangers looking for work, we all know that.

if you are trying to run a business (which it sounds like you are, because of the pricing aspects of your question) then run a business, no offense.

however if you are doing the work for yourself, because you are trying to cut down and save on labor costs, i commend you at the same time.

eitherway, hanging is grueling on the body. ill be the first to admit i am NOT and never was a hanger. Slingin mud for me was the only way to go and i was smart enough to realize that early, hahah.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:38 AM   #6
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


You also mentioned the bead going to the floor as well, also a really, really bad idea for the same reason. Once settling occurs(not if, but when) it'll force the bead up and crack like a big dog.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:08 AM   #7
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


We never put rock directly on the floor either but A+ stated the builder specified to the floor. And yeah it should pay alot more. Ridiculous job should get ridiculous pay. If the builder doesn't understand the problem before being told he probably won't understand AFTER either.
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


The problem is theres no flooring at all, wants it mudded right to floor. I think they're doing a decorative concrete finish. Thats why I was leaning toward standups. I would think that if I hang like an ordinary home and filled all the gaps at the bottom to the floor I would end up with the same potential problems. Is there really a difference whether its mud or rock touching? I would think both are bad ideas. As for me hanging, I don't have enough work to offer for hangers. These days it's pretty much me and one helper.
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #9
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


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Originally Posted by A+ Texture LLC View Post
The problem is theres no flooring at all, wants it mudded right to floor. I think they're doing a decorative concrete finish. Thats why I was leaning toward standups. I would think that if I hang like an ordinary home and filled all the gaps at the bottom to the floor I would end up with the same potential problems. Is there really a difference whether its mud or rock touching? I would think both are bad ideas. As for me hanging, I don't have enough work to offer for hangers. These days it's pretty much me and one helper.
i hear ya A+....

as far as this guy INSISTING it touch the concrete.....

here's what you do:

...Do exactly as he tells you to do. just make DAMN sure you explicitly state (verbally and IN WRITING) to him that you are NOT responsible for any drywall issues that may arise due to future settling that is directly related to installing materials that are touching the floor.

and make the guy sign it. put it as a separate addendum to your contract (hoping you even have a contract).

And do not worry A+ if you do not have any 'formal contracts'....in a court of law, nearly anything can pass as a 'contract.'

you can write it on a freakin napkin for all the courts care. just make sure you make the proper steps afterwards to keep whatever it is that BOTH parties have signed safe.

again, if the numb skull wants the board touching the ground, do it...who cares.......but you MUST get it in writing that you are not responsible if sh-t happens months to a year from now.

best case scenario, it will be fine....and no settling of any kind will take place, which COULD happen.

either way, protect yourself. i cant say that enough.

perfect example was about 5-6 years ago.

I had a lady drag me to court because she had TERRIBLE seams show up in her huge 30 x 30 flat ceiling, and i refused to fix them (for free).

she took me to court after realizing i would have to charge her to fix the seams.

long story short, my azz was saved because i had a SIGNED portion of my contract stating that to the BEST of my ability, i cautioned several several times about the potential settling and drywall issues that will occur at this specific clng in the house, and how RC channel was a must due to the way the girder trusses was laid out, and how it would play a KEY role in relieving any future settling...and showing the fkkn signature of where she OPTED out of that add-on for my contract (which was a measly 300 bucks....just the extra cost for my hangers to install the RC metal).

as soon as the judge saw that, she simply told the lady "did he not warn you this very problem would happen? is this YOUR signature which i see here CLEARLY stating that you acknowledged what potentially could happen, and that you opted out of installing this rc channel product before drywall installation even occured? that you were FULL AWARE of the benefits of this product, yet you still opted out? as far as im concerned, his company has EVERY right to charge you for the repairs.......which i can see here, his company even STATED how future repairs would most likely be more significant than the initial 300 dollars it would cost to install the rc channel, BEFORE drywall was installed......"

hahhahahhah, i'll tell you....i tried the hardest not to keep the most snarky grin off my face.

she just kept making excuse after excuse "well i have no idea what that product is, i dont know anything about construction --"

then the (female) judge cut her off and goes "well, you know what m'am, ill be honest, i dont know a thing about construction either....but after carefully examing on this company's contract exactly what this RC Channel does, which it clearly describes.........its simple common sense IF YOU pay attention to the contract.....it fully describes in laymans terms the logical physics involved with this product."

sigh.......i'll never get tired of telling this story, hahahahhah...ill never forget it.

SOOOOO.......A+......again, do as the man says, but make sure he is FULL aware of the potential problems!

i hope you learn from my story! hahaha.
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:43 PM   #10
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Re: 9', 10', 12, Ceilings Finished to Floor


either one touching the floor isn't good. settling,shrinkage,moisture....any one of these will be a problem later but if the builder won't budge it's his headache. concrete? it should have been poured first. i see a pile of migraines with this one.
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