Rocky Mountain Drywall....

Darren@Partners

Not wanting to add to the gloom out there, but what have you guys heard? This was a company with over 600 workers, am hearing they went down recently. My taper worked for them prior to me. What does this mean if an outfit of this size can't make it? I hope it was because they got so large on production homes, they couldn't make the transition in the market. Having 600+ and trying to change course would have been pretty near impossible. Was this the drywall version of the Titanic?

Some of the displaced are sniffing around MT and MN for work, having heard rates I'll not repeat here.

Custom Drywall Svc.

Darren,

From what i've seen, just because a company is 'big' doesnt mean anything....i look at it as 'the harder they fall' kind of scenario. (AIG for example......)

i have a buddy who has a 'big company' etc etc, but hes a bad business man.

in other words...this guys company makes 250 million a year......but they spend 250 million also......so, whats the point???

i may be missing your point darren, not sure.........but dont think just because a company is large, and seemingly established that underneath all that, the company is run 'super efficient' ....which in the recent recession, has proven the opposite.

TONS of huge companies been going belly up -- again, i have to point to this AIG debacle.

the larger your company is, the more risk it faces -- obviously. in times like this those companies get penalized much harsher for being inefficient then say, your 'mom n pop' companies.



correct me if i totally misunderstood you though Darren...you may be trying to make another point.

Darren@Partners

I think there are several points, most of which you made for me Custom.

One you made is size is over-rated. Like you say, big companies + big overhead + slow economy = BIG FALL.

But one point I did not state in that post but in an earlier one regarding the rates getting paid up north and it getting back to the cheaper market's subs... Now there are 600 workers with their feelers out for a new market, telling BILs and cousins, "I heard so-and-so is getting x$ in MT or MN and lets all go up there." That's what I got yesterday from my taper. He'd heard about the big money and thought he'd go and try it, simply told him good luck, I'll get to looking for another taper today. Changed his mind by the end of that conversation. So I guess my point was that those high rates HAVE come to haunt us and I will NOT let it affect my bottom line. And to reiterate, those getting the big bucks, good for you. Let's just not be publishing it, for the good of all. Those guys are desparate and it gets their hopes up and they walk away from a little work into a place they find they're very unwelcome. Most don't burn a bridge, some don't even have a bridge to burn.

And AIG came to my mind as well. What also comes to mind are the big guys around here (not nearly as large, but the two have nearly 80% of the local market) and whether they are getting near the tipping point too. Both are guilty of buying up work and driving down labor prices. Just wondering out loud myself and curious as to what others are thinking about it.

Just a heads up to others that there maybe new guys in your area soon, looking for your work. Just be on your toes.

It may be the push I needed to cut labor even more to stay out of that position myself. If that sounded selfish, it isn't. That move is only to secure my viability ( and my subs jobs) so as to not suffer the same fate. Would the worker be better off getting a penny or two less in 09 and still have a job in 2010 and beyond or get pissed and quit and go somewhere else? Cause I still pay better than everyone else in this market.

Custom Drywall Svc.

of COURSE that isnt selfish!

I've stated what im about to say before on this forum (which was apparently controversial, and i unfairly got complete SH-T for it, nearly crucified)....

but think about it like this Darren, i know you care about every single one of your employees........and feel like its 'wrong' if you have to cut labor prices...

well, hell...of course its 'wrong' in the sense that no employer wants to do that.....but lets put it like this, dont worry about being 'selfish' in wanting to protect YOUR business, because quite frankly.....do you think your employees really give a f-ck about YOUR family when you have to close your business down? do you think they really care about what YOU'RE going to do? HAH! dream on.....

...they are "employees"....they will go work for someone else as they've always done.

what are YOU going to do????

in no way am i tryin to sound like a cold prick here, but hey....lets face the music folks....if you have your own business, you HAVE to protect it.

my priorites in explicit order are as follows:
#1 - family
#2 - my business
#3 - my employees

NOT:
#1 - my employees
#2 - my business
#3 - my family

NEVER, period.

i am PROUD to say i ALWAYS "look out for #1."

sue me.

NEVER feel selfish about your business Darren...........because to me, it is an INSULT if anyone threatens / attacks my business...

because when you attack my business, you attack my FAMILY -- #1.

Darren@Partners

I guess my original info was wrong, Rocky Mountain not tits up. But have gotten rid of all hourly employees and gone to strictly subcontract work. Just wanted to clarify that.

And Custom, I don't feel selfish about cutting rates. I just qualified that statement to avoid the same crucifixion you got for saying same. Think you and I are of same mind in general and does me a lot of good to hear from you. We have to make hard decisions day in and day out and often it's a fairly lonely position to be in. I appreciate being able to come here and know there will be someone else who sees my point of view and also those of others that maybe don't. I think that helps to keep one well grounded.

I guess my taper has had some time to let it soak in and sees the folly in chasing rumored work afar. Today we're all ready to hunker down and git 'er done right here, right now for whatever we can get for the work. Actually have work enough to sit down with him and do up a schedule for two full weeks. Haven't had that luxury for some time, has been pretty much hand to mouth of late. That's not to say tough times are over, not by a long shot. But momentum may be starting to build or it may be simply paying off to have been hustling this past few weeks.

I still think the guys up north should be on the lookout for invaders, though. Also am hearing that guys going south are having a tough time getting BACK across now. Saw that coming 10 years ago...

muddymen

Darren it's ironic you are only using subs now because that's the boat I'm in and 1099's are a lot less work. oh and no guilt trip when you would other wise "let them go" I just say "I don't have anything for you." that doesn't mean I don't have work that just means I have no work for them. On the down side I have to pay them a little more because I'm 1099 ing them but over all its a win win.

Darren@Partners

How true. When I had to lay my own brother off 2 years ago, I swore off hourly help altogether. Some jobs still require me to pay hourly (at a slightly higher rate, like you said) but that's the only way to figure some jobs. Never again will I put myself in the situation where I feel like I did having to let go someone that had been with me for 10 years, and family to boot.....

Custom Drywall Svc.

Darren,

Tony Soprano said it best...

"...you got no f**king idea what it's like to be number one. Every decision you make affects every facet of every other f**king thing. It's too much to deal with almost. And in the end you're completely alone with it."

Darren@Partners

Oh Custom, I'm getting a man-crush on you. So many parallels with the Sopranos and this business: the loyalty of some and the the traitors within a business, the dysfunction of so many to deal with on a daily basis, the desire to "whack" a guy once in a while. Great one to quote. I almost cried. I miss my Pauly Walnuts.

Custom Drywall Svc.

Hah!

...i knew there had to be a Sopranos fanboy like me on here hahah.

right on Darren...the parallels ARE endless...that's one of the great aspects i loved about Sopranos.......the business side. Any fan knows how keen and shrewd of a business man Tony Soprano is. No matter WHAT business you are in, any business owner could relate to the struggles he went through.

And like he said, at the end of the day....its just a business -- we're just trying to provide for our families.

yea...i cant tell you how many times i wanted to 'whack' someone Darren, hahahhah. so many times i thought that in my head, when dealing with a problematic employee or business associate....."why not just whack the guy? that solve everyones problem" hahha.

Man, i miss Paulie also sighhhh..........and Silvio......especially Johnny Sack, he was great.

i loved everytime Tony and Johnny Sack would discuss business -- its just crazy how much you can relate to that show. thats the beauty of why it was so popular....you didnt have to be in the mafia to totally relate to it.

man, the hard thing for me is just tryin to find a show that will replace it. That show was top-notch across the board....writing, directing, acting.....can't beat it.

Anyways....these days, the drywall industry does seem like the mafia. its just not right the sh-t you hear going on nowadays.....the shady business practices you hear.

sighhh....but again, like the wise Tony Soprano would say:

"wha' you gon' do?"

Whitey97

Is it bad I've never heard of these guys? and I'm from Mn

dawn2010

It heard that is not a good news.