labor prices

Wallers · 02-06-2010, 01:31 AM

YUP. I called one, we used to be friends. I called him out. 68 CENTS??? WTF is wrong with you? He said "Is that what it came out to? Good! I'm going to make more than I thought I was"

Huh?

That really perplexed me. And still does. If you can't compete on a quality level, then you should find a new profession.

Wallers · 02-06-2010, 01:32 AM

Maybe we should all move to Wisconsin and be the lowball bastards at 1.05?

Wallers · 02-06-2010, 01:34 AM

OOOOHHHHH! I just read that again..... Through finish coat.... OF PAINT. Nevermind.

fenez · 02-06-2010, 01:40 AM

Even my best contractor called me today with a job and said "we have to work out a new number" I told him that quality will suffer because I have to maintain my gpm no matter what. He said and I quote "for the right price I can deal with it" This is a guy who charges big numbers for his work and is known for quality.

Wallers · 02-06-2010, 02:04 AM

That is awful. As a good finisher, he knows you won't let a job "slip", but expects your numbers to. Tell him if he wants a new number he is getting a heavy splatter. I do work for one of those guys also, and have lost my azz on more than one of his jobs, but slowly have to make up for it here and there. The thing there is, homeowners tend to gravitate to the low bid and if they aren't going with him, they aren't going with you. Being a finisher, I personally don't want to skimp on materials, because that makes my job harder, more time. Time = money. If we skimp on a rocker, it makes our job harder. Time = money. I don't know the answer, I'm just trying to keep my head up. I've been raised on the notion that quality is important. My grandfather and uncles were plasterers, and my grandfather was getting calls from all over the country until he was 80 years old from people trying to get him to come plaster for them!

I have to forget about that and swallow my pride?

fenez · 02-06-2010, 02:22 AM

we don't do texture here in NY. it is all smooth wall so everything has to be pretty good to pass. What is counter productive is that once you start on that road to working cheaper it never has a final destination they will always ask for cheaper and cheaper until there is no reason to work for yourself any longer.

Wallers · 02-06-2010, 02:29 AM

Exactly. Do you see him actually going anywhere else? Call his bluff!

99 percent of what I do is smooth also, and textured walls is a great way to make up a little of the loss around here! It doesn't happen often enough, but I just tell them that after masking everything off, and the extra material, it's gona save you very little. I do like that it's not the norm here, so I really could (should) be charging MORE for it! haha! 2 coats then gross it up? SURE! Can I?

Wallers · 02-06-2010, 02:31 AM

How much are materials up there? do you use usg? How much is labor right now? Give me some factors n numbers. Just curious. You know the story here.

fenez · 02-06-2010, 02:50 AM

about $13 for a bucket of mud, labor prices run from $150 to $200 a day. about .80 for just labor. Of course those numbers vary from job to job as no 2 jobs are the same but those numbers are a round about. That is rocked and 3 coats no materials.

d-rock · 02-06-2010, 10:45 AM

many reasons for these problems. Many subs drop their pants to get the work. Soon as one drops, the rest follow like dominoes. Subs willing to work for a day's pay. Guys using illegals to pay low wages etc etc..PIECE WORK IS A GIANT PROBLEM. It's working for commission. And guess what ? the next guy is willing to work for a few pennies less, and he's stronger and faster.maybe not smarter.
Some people are making money, and they are doing it fairly. Unions are not a bad thing gentlemen, don't confuse public sector unions with private sector..If we were organized, there would be no threat from illegals, or hacks doing the work.

fenez · 02-06-2010, 11:43 AM

D-rock is right. there should be a standard by which we all have to abide, but we know that too many like to bastardize anything that is standardized so it would be a problem to get any type of an organized approach to residential drywall work. As far as illegals go...if they remain in the work force guys will use them because they can work cheaper than most.

taper71 · 02-06-2010, 05:21 PM

I dont think it would be as hard as you think . The economy is crap and I believe alot more ppl than you think are sick and tired of being stepped on or fighting for work . I think now would be a perfect time to start organizing amongst the trade. There will always be the stupid and ignorant that will cry, but the good and serious will perservere as long as we all can work together . Lets face it good or bad- drywall is a part of the building process and if it all came to a sudden halt because no one will go to work until prices become reasonable the DC's, GC's and HO's will get on board if they want to continue to build . The hacks and thiefs that try to go to work because they still have to eat or supply their drug ,alcohol, or famillies in mexico need to be stopped by many - not just the internet complainer, but by actually getting out to where the building is going on and stopping it. Things would get media attention then things will start to change I could gaurantee it. I also think the way to start is by errecting little signs in front of the suppliers or in the suppliers buildings with a web site where the organizing can start. I can guarantee ppl will sign up probably slow at first but with the right set up it would escalate quickly. I ll also say that I dont believe in unions as they are now. I think a better system would be how 12 step programs run where every group has a say in what goes for their area because every region is different and has different needs and living costs. Just my 2 cents .

Wallers · 02-07-2010, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenez

about $13 for a bucket of mud, labor prices run from $150 to $200 a day. about .80 for just labor..

Thats what I shoot for, 200 a day, at LEAST 25 an hour.... But at .80 for labor, what's that? .30 for hanging and .50 for finish??? That sounds crazy high to me, And Id be making 60 an hour or so at that price. Are you doing high rise buildings at those prices? I mean, are you paying for parking and such? If piece labor is that high, then hourly should match... Union? Lots of breaks?

d-rock · 02-07-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallers

Thats what I shoot for, 200 a day, at LEAST 25 an hour.... But at .80 for labor, what's that? .30 for hanging and .50 for finish??? That sounds crazy high to me, And Id be making 60 an hour or so at that price. Are you doing high rise buildings at those prices? I mean, are you paying for parking and such? If piece labor is that high, then hourly should match... Union? Lots of breaks?

It's not high in the NYC area, it's very reasonable. It's not union. Union labor is about $350 per day, that's before benefits and burden. A union carpenter costs around $850 per day with benefits and burden. There aren't any more breaks than a non union site. It's the same thing, however there are rules that the contractors must abide by in treatment of the employees.
In this city, supplied, hung and finished runs anywhere from 1.10 to 2.00 depending on the location and finish. Out in the suburbs, Westchester County and Long Island. it was $1.50 before the recession, now there are crews of illegals supplying installing and finishing for .80..
Remember, when working in Manhattan, parking could cost you $50.00 per day.

Tolls run into the thousands annually.

jmr · 04-09-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom Drywall Svc.

For my area (northern california), or just me at least... anything past .14 cents per board square foot is insane.

my usual pay rate is usually within .06c - .10c per sf......and if theres people out there that think thats ridiculously low, its not -- at least for my area.

heres my rule of thumb:

if its a standard floorplan (not too custom) with a flat 8' clng. plate ht, that can be hung for no more than .08 cents......i pay .06 cents. If you pay more than .08 cents, or your hangers demand more -- you're being taken advantage of.

and, for lack of a better word, im talkin 'rice and beans' hangers of course -- hey, its the name of the game :P ....my area is nothing but.

anyways, im dead serious....people can say whatever to me, im unfair to my hangers, im taking advantage of them, blah blah....

NO.

hey...i'm running a BUSINESS, people.

for the house i described above, considering TIMES LIKE THIS....as slow as the economy and new construction is, theres hangers lining up at my door that beg to hang a house for .06 cents or even for 9 bucks an hour.

theres people that even say to me, "wow...you're paying employees 1980s prices per sf"

well, hey........houses are selling for 1980's prices right NOW....am i wrong?

just think about that.

Also, custom homes....10' clng ht +.....i pay 10 - 12 cents........but as bad as times are now, my hangers can do it for .08cents. 2 years ago, i would pay .12 cents tops.

and if you guys are wondering, finishing is the same......actually, bottoms at .05 cents to rarely am i paying over .08cents.

intricate, 5000 sf+ custom homes, i pay 12cents.

custom hawk and troweled hand textures, im paying usually .08 - .11 cents.

smooth troweled hand textures, .10 - .13 cents.

machine applied spray texture i rarely go over .015 cents......yep, one and a half cents.

again people....this is in MY area....northern california...central valley to be more specific.

oh so your that piece of **** drywall contractor driving down prices in my area..

sounds like taking advantage of desperate people is the name of your game.. its your ****ty dog eat dog mentality that is killing civility and standards in our industry...

the problem is, is our market is flooded with ass clowns like you..

if EVERYONE said enough with these low prices, GC's would have no choice but to pay fair market rate.. but no, you just keep driving prices to the bottom till eventually, your taking it in the ass from your slave driving GC for a few table scraps...

you say homes are selling at '80s prices, sure but the GC is still making 20% + profit off your back.... think about, if being the Bitch is your gig then keep playing their game..

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-10-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr

oh so your that piece of **** drywall contractor driving down prices in my area..

sounds like taking advantage of desperate people is the name of your game.. its your ****ty dog eat dog mentality that is killing civility and standards in our industry...

the problem is, is our market is flooded with ass clowns like you..

if EVERYONE said enough with these low prices, GC's would have no choice but to pay fair market rate.. but no, you just keep driving prices to the bottom till eventually, your taking it in the ass from your slave driving GC for a few table scraps...

you say homes are selling at '80s prices, sure but the GC is still making 20% + profit off your back.... think about, if being the Bitch is your gig then keep playing their game..

First off, you're a moron for what you just said, because you assume my prices are low as well to GC's. Wrong. Quite the opposite.

Maximizing profit is what i'm concerned with. Period -- yes...it's called "business"

Plus, i'm known to be one of the most expensive drywall subcontractors in my area. Think about what you just said again, and tell me if i'm part of the problem.

The 'problem' we are facing as drywall subcontractors is unlicensed businesses, and even legit companies who practice bad business.

I am neither.

Thank you.

Final touch drywall · 04-11-2010, 10:03 AM

No need to work harder,just learn to work smarter.

In this day & age, everyone is looking to save a dime & so am I.Of coarse we all need to cut our prices a bit,but in order to make the same money,you need to change things around a bit & just work smarter.

Final touch drywall · 04-11-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenez

Even my best contractor called me today with a job and said "we have to work out a new number" I told him that quality will suffer because I have to maintain my gpm no matter what. He said and I quote "for the right price I can deal with it" This is a guy who charges big numbers for his work and is known for quality.

Honestly,I would never tell my best contractor that quality will suffer.
I have changed my routine just a bit which is putting out a better job,IMO,& saving me tons of money in the long run.Just need to change things up a bit,no more waiting for compound to dry for us.

In these times you need to work smarter.

Fenez,what part of the island are you from>??

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-12-2010, 12:07 PM

Exactly guys.

My mentor always told me: "Don't work HARD.....work SMART."

rockdaddy · 04-18-2010, 08:57 AM

anyone else getting thier asses handed to them for all the screw pops that came out this winter? Just had four houses where I had to scrape all of the screw pops off the ceiling and refinish. Over 1000 pops per house. What the hell is going on???????? In 27 years of doing this I've never experienced this to the extent that I am now.

02-06-2010, 01:31 AM	#121
Wallers View Profile Wallers turd polisher Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (95) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity turd polisher Trade: Drywaller extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: labor prices YUP. I called one, we used to be friends. I called him out. 68 CENTS??? WTF is wrong with you? He said "Is that what it came out to? Good! I'm going to make more than I thought I was" Huh? That really perplexed me. And still does. If you can't compete on a quality level, then you should find a new profession.

02-06-2010, 01:32 AM	#122
Wallers View Profile Wallers turd polisher Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (95) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity turd polisher Trade: Drywaller extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: labor prices Maybe we should all move to Wisconsin and be the lowball bastards at 1.05?

02-06-2010, 01:34 AM	#123
Wallers View Profile Wallers turd polisher Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (95) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity turd polisher Trade: Drywaller extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: labor prices OOOOHHHHH! I just read that again..... Through finish coat.... OF PAINT. Nevermind.

02-06-2010, 01:40 AM	#124
fenez View Profile fenez Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (174) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: drywall, plaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: LI. N.Y. Posts: 174 Thanks: 0 Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts	Re: labor prices Even my best contractor called me today with a job and said "we have to work out a new number" I told him that quality will suffer because I have to maintain my gpm no matter what. He said and I quote "for the right price I can deal with it" This is a guy who charges big numbers for his work and is known for quality.

02-06-2010, 02:04 AM	#125
Wallers View Profile Wallers turd polisher Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (95) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity turd polisher Trade: Drywaller extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: labor prices That is awful. As a good finisher, he knows you won't let a job "slip", but expects your numbers to. Tell him if he wants a new number he is getting a heavy splatter. I do work for one of those guys also, and have lost my azz on more than one of his jobs, but slowly have to make up for it here and there. The thing there is, homeowners tend to gravitate to the low bid and if they aren't going with him, they aren't going with you. Being a finisher, I personally don't want to skimp on materials, because that makes my job harder, more time. Time = money. If we skimp on a rocker, it makes our job harder. Time = money. I don't know the answer, I'm just trying to keep my head up. I've been raised on the notion that quality is important. My grandfather and uncles were plasterers, and my grandfather was getting calls from all over the country until he was 80 years old from people trying to get him to come plaster for them! I have to forget about that and swallow my pride?

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02-06-2010, 02:22 AM	#126
fenez View Profile fenez Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (174) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: drywall, plaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: LI. N.Y. Posts: 174 Thanks: 0 Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts	Re: labor prices we don't do texture here in NY. it is all smooth wall so everything has to be pretty good to pass. What is counter productive is that once you start on that road to working cheaper it never has a final destination they will always ask for cheaper and cheaper until there is no reason to work for yourself any longer.

02-06-2010, 02:29 AM	#127
Wallers View Profile Wallers turd polisher Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (95) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity turd polisher Trade: Drywaller extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: labor prices Exactly. Do you see him actually going anywhere else? Call his bluff! 99 percent of what I do is smooth also, and textured walls is a great way to make up a little of the loss around here! It doesn't happen often enough, but I just tell them that after masking everything off, and the extra material, it's gona save you very little. I do like that it's not the norm here, so I really could (should) be charging MORE for it! haha! 2 coats then gross it up? SURE! Can I?

02-06-2010, 02:31 AM	#128
Wallers View Profile Wallers turd polisher Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (95) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity turd polisher Trade: Drywaller extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: labor prices How much are materials up there? do you use usg? How much is labor right now? Give me some factors n numbers. Just curious. You know the story here.

02-06-2010, 02:50 AM	#129
fenez View Profile fenez Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (174) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: drywall, plaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: LI. N.Y. Posts: 174 Thanks: 0 Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts	Re: labor prices about $13 for a bucket of mud, labor prices run from $150 to $200 a day. about .80 for just labor. Of course those numbers vary from job to job as no 2 jobs are the same but those numbers are a round about. That is rocked and 3 coats no materials.

02-06-2010, 10:45 AM	#130
d-rock View Profile d-rock Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (334) Photos (9) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: drywall,framing, plaster Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 334 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Re: labor prices many reasons for these problems. Many subs drop their pants to get the work. Soon as one drops, the rest follow like dominoes. Subs willing to work for a day's pay. Guys using illegals to pay low wages etc etc..PIECE WORK IS A GIANT PROBLEM. It's working for commission. And guess what ? the next guy is willing to work for a few pennies less, and he's stronger and faster.maybe not smarter. Some people are making money, and they are doing it fairly. Unions are not a bad thing gentlemen, don't confuse public sector unions with private sector..If we were organized, there would be no threat from illegals, or hacks doing the work.

02-06-2010, 11:43 AM	#131
fenez View Profile fenez Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (174) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: drywall, plaster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: LI. N.Y. Posts: 174 Thanks: 0 Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts	Re: labor prices D-rock is right. there should be a standard by which we all have to abide, but we know that too many like to bastardize anything that is standardized so it would be a problem to get any type of an organized approach to residential drywall work. As far as illegals go...if they remain in the work force guys will use them because they can work cheaper than most.

02-06-2010, 05:21 PM	#132
taper71 View Profile taper71 Mud Manipulator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (220) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Mud Manipulator Trade: Drywall Finishing Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sherwood Park, AB Posts: 220 Thanks: 38 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Re: labor prices I dont think it would be as hard as you think . The economy is crap and I believe alot more ppl than you think are sick and tired of being stepped on or fighting for work . I think now would be a perfect time to start organizing amongst the trade. There will always be the stupid and ignorant that will cry, but the good and serious will perservere as long as we all can work together . Lets face it good or bad- drywall is a part of the building process and if it all came to a sudden halt because no one will go to work until prices become reasonable the DC's, GC's and HO's will get on board if they want to continue to build . The hacks and thiefs that try to go to work because they still have to eat or supply their drug ,alcohol, or famillies in mexico need to be stopped by many - not just the internet complainer, but by actually getting out to where the building is going on and stopping it. Things would get media attention then things will start to change I could gaurantee it. I also think the way to start is by errecting little signs in front of the suppliers or in the suppliers buildings with a web site where the organizing can start. I can guarantee ppl will sign up probably slow at first but with the right set up it would escalate quickly. I ll also say that I dont believe in unions as they are now. I think a better system would be how 12 step programs run where every group has a say in what goes for their area because every region is different and has different needs and living costs. Just my 2 cents .

04-11-2010, 10:03 AM	#137
Final touch drywall View Profile Final touch drywall Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (286) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: Drywall contractor Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: L.I.NewYork Posts: 286 Thanks: 41 Thanked 131 Times in 62 Posts	Re: labor prices No need to work harder,just learn to work smarter. In this day & age, everyone is looking to save a dime & so am I.Of coarse we all need to cut our prices a bit,but in order to make the same money,you need to change things around a bit & just work smarter. __________________ work smarter<not harder.

04-12-2010, 12:07 PM	#139
Custom Drywall Svc. View Profile Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (421) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: Drywall Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 421 Thanks: 4 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	Re: labor prices Exactly guys. My mentor always told me: "Don't work HARD.....work SMART."

04-18-2010, 08:57 AM	#140
rockdaddy View Profile rockdaddy Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (105) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: drywall installs Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: labor prices anyone else getting thier asses handed to them for all the screw pops that came out this winter? Just had four houses where I had to scrape all of the screw pops off the ceiling and refinish. Over 1000 pops per house. What the hell is going on???????? In 27 years of doing this I've never experienced this to the extent that I am now.

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