labor prices

RCinPA

Sorry

Whitey97

no apology needed. It's all good

Custom Drywall Svc.

hahaha...

thats funny whitey.


Although, i cant resist stating, in reply to RCinPA......

why would you not try to get the job done as cheap as you can.......while charging as high as you can....in order to attain maximum profit...?



.......why?

ive never thought of this as taking advantage of those who work for me. first off, they are my employees that walked into my office looking for a job. second, they are all more than happy to be working for me, especially in times like these.

i just dont get when the notion of trying to get the job, product, service, etc done as cheaply as you can, while making as much money as you can became a bad thing.

i just dont.


now, as whitey put it, im definitely not trying to start another 'labor prices' war on here, and as i mentioned RCinPA, you have every right to that opinion, and a very noble one i might add.....however, i just cant forgot that at the end of the day, im simply trying to run a profitable, successful business, not a charity organization.



my main philosophy that i will stick to 150% of the time is, again, to provide the highest quality service i can, while keeping my costs as LOW as i can, and charging as HIGH as i can FOR that service.

tell me what successful multi-billion dollar u.s. business does not have this very philosophy?

anyone.

Whitey97

I agree with you, uhh.... 150%

Darren@Partners

I'll have to weigh again too. Just had another long chat with my taper. Cold hard facts time. Has to let go one journeyman and cut the remainung guys pay about 20% in order to stay afloat. The jobs we're finding, at the prices we're getting to compete, make this do or die. This is the same conversation I've had with him for almost two years, that if labor stays at '05 levels, I won't be around by the end of the year. So its not about maximizing profit, lining my pockets, stc., its about getting lean and staying alive.....
Was a time when we never went over 30 minutes from home to work and passed on anything out of town. Over the next 2 weeks, we will be 90+ miles away in three different directions, and happy to have the work.
Custom told of HVAC guy sucking off a job for less than half his rate, I got painters doing us that way. Kind of expect that from a trade so close to Drywall, but a HVAC? So that tells me he's done all the service/replacement work in the area and now is desperate and foolish. Here we also have the two biggest operators behaving like Railroad barons and Standard Oil, driving the market into the ground, helped out by trunk-slamming hacks. I do not want to participate in the ruination of the market, but also cannot abide seeing the men starve either. If this trend continues, the second tier operators like myself, will driven out and the big guys can then sport-f### the hacks and the builders to their hearts desire. I will not stand for it, at least may as long as I am able. If that means cutting wages, then so be it. I have already slashed overhead to where I am starting to feel if not look a little bit like a hack myself...
I sleep fine, except for wondering if we'll outlast this abhorent behavior by the competition. And also wonder if the entire GC world smells blood in the water, and decides(or has already) to use this to increase their bottom line.... Or worse yet the customers....they have smelled the blood too. And they think they can play at GC or DC and think we are unfairly gouging and simply bypass us altogether. By the time the "educate" themselves, their job is "complete" and realize the need for a DC, but too late for their project and have to live with the results. Just my .02

Custom Drywall Svc.

sighhh, yea i hear that.

damn GC's.....i never honestly thought id be COMPETING with them, just ridiculous.

Darren, i feel you, in running lean.....definitely. im trying to cut as much overhead as i can right now currently, its just eating my company alive honestly.

and my philosophy i talk about above guys, i mean....thats of course my 'general' philosophy.....should be ANY business'......as in, 'maximizing profit' etc etc...

but we ALL know......that is hard right now. currently, its more like just maximizing what little room you now have for profit.

pathetic.

Darren@Partners

Good news, won't be paying much in taxes this year

aschnit

custom.... not sure if my math is all square but if you're guys are making $1000/wk doing piece work at .06/sq ft.... they're installing or finishing roughly 16000 sq ft or 350 sheets a week?

Custom Drywall Svc.

aschnit, can you please reference or quote the post you are referring to?

if it is what i think it is, not all my guys, but 'key' guys are making (or were) 1000 per week.

is that the case now? definitely not. the current volume or lack thereof that we have doesnt justify me paying any of my employees 1000 / wk.

when things were 'booming' and production was at a high, i'd set my key finishers @ a 1000/wk salary. but in the meanwhile, always comparing their output of piecework to that salary base.

and yes, if i read you correctly, i could have just one of my key finishers alone finishing MORE than 16000 sf/week at times (of course, when things were booming).

like i said, today is a completely different scenario. the context of that '1000/wk salary' was at a time when my company as a whole would output anywhere from 30,000 - 40,000 sf/week for just ONE customer.....my production builder.

right now, for that very production builder, im only average about 8000 sf/week, just to give you an idea of how much business has dropped off.

hope that answers some of your questions.

welcome to the forum also.

akcajun

does anyone know what the going rate for alaska is for footage rate??

Stormy_Ny

So even though your volume has gone down .... You do not think that a professional finisher should make 200 $ a day ?

pathetic.....Truly.

d-rock

i think a finisher should make between 150 and 200 per day non union. a framer/rocker about the same.
Usually when I can, i'll estimate using the higher wages, but lately in order to win the work we have to use the lower number. The fact is, in the past year i've been all over the map, but i'm hoping to nail it this year. If times are tough there's nothing wrong with cutting the fat. But life is about balance, and we need to be able to drop numbers without selling ourselves out. The most certain thing in life besides taxes and death, is the impermanence of everything. This pain to shall pass.

Stormy_Ny

Wow D-Rock is getting deep on us .... A Philosophical Rocker ...Who would have thunk it.

d-rock

crap...i thought piece work was illegal. Anyhoo, when you do union jobs you don't deal with any of this silliness. You know exactly what the other guy is paying his men, you know he's legitimate, and it's fair competition.

evolve991

No piece work isn't illegal and I believe its the best way for motivated workers....stand around alot? Do it for free.

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deyodrywall

If I sub out work, I pay, at the lowest, 17 cents a sq ft hang, 17 cents a sq ft to tape and 7-8 cents a sq foot to sand and prime. We do alot of rated projects as well where my carpenters get $55/hr, and that makes me feel good to give back to my guys. My philisophy is, if you are willing to work for $3 a bd, I don't want you on my job site, you're a liabilty. I refuse to hire illegals and require an I9 from all my subs for everyone who will be on my job. You guys are ridiculous. My family has been doing this since 1940 and it is guys like you that have taken this from a skilled trade to where anyone with a 6" knife and a Dewalt drywall gun is a drywall Co. I mean come on, at $3 a board to hang, are they properly insured, do they live in a dump. Sorry, just had to vent that out.

Quality1st

Isn,t that 6cents a square foot. Thats what it was in 75 to hang, and 15 cents to tape and spray. You do mostly smoothwall in NH and you only pay 17cents to finish smoothwall. You must be a hanger running your company if you pay hangers same as finishers. Smoothwall is worth at least 50 cents a square and rockers will hang almost anywherer for 17 to 18 cents a square, gotten up to 1$ a square for smoothwall on big multi mil pigs.

evolve991

Deyo!!! Good Man!!!!

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Rockin' the suburbs since 9.9.1991 Shue Drywall .....Marylands Modern Rock Alternative....

deyodrywall

We are in NH. 17 cents is $8 per board 12 footers. We pay $8-11 a board. As for finishing, it shoold always be a level 4 finish. We dont texture very often in New england, unless in a few hotel chains. My jobs are all standardized. I expect the same thing for everyone in the field. A level 4 finish, even if we texture a ceiling. I did say, 17 cents was the minimum. I haven't asked anyone to work for that in a while, usually on cookie cutter developments where they have house after house that is exactly the same. And yes we pay hangers the same as finishers. By doing that, we eliminate the need to tape every box and can light. I don't think finishing is harder than a great hanging job. Hangers need to layout a job correctly to make it easy for the taper. My hangers hang from the tapers point of view, not laying butt joints directly above a window, not piecing in headers (we go stratight across if we can). We load 8,10,12,14 and 16 footers to help the taper. You must be a finisher. The drywall industry is the only trade where you have several distinct trades within an organization, and we get beat up the most by GC's. Unfortunately, over the years we have allowed this to happen. I bid against guys (who learned the trade from my Grandfather & Uncle) that have no insurances and get paid cash by the builders, and it is ruining the trade.
Also, you probally don'y have enough good finishers where you are. I have noticed that where there is alot of texturing, usually in an illegal immigrant working area, they don't need quality, it is getting textured. Everything here is smooth. Peeling back all the loose paper, doubling out butt joints, hook 14" s are standard in a finishers bag here and if I ask if they have one and they say "what is a hook 14" they dont work here. So here, you are competing with good finishers period. Alot of these brazillian & mexican crews, work hard, but their quality is not what you get here in New England. If they hang a job, the fiisher needs to fix every box and alot of blowouts. The most a finisher gets here in New England is usually $10 a boards (thats what we usually pay in residential per 12 footer). Plasterers dont even charge $24 a board.
Good luck guys, it rough out there.

Darren@Partners

Okay I'll bite, what is a hook 14?

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