labor prices

Originally Posted by taper71

In my experience , I would get better responses from my wall than trying to convice you of human compasion. I take it that you have never known what it is like to starve, to not be able to pay all your bills on time, or buy your child that toy he/she really wanted because your boss is too busy getting rich of your back and making you work insane hrs .

Getting paid enough money to cover the cost of living plus a little entertainment and savings is all most people want out of life. Pay that and you will have a very succesful company like the one that hires me to do there work. People like you want that money and take it, but it doesn't last long because people can only be backed up so far before they turn around and start swinging. I like to believe that that day is comming because of the crappy situation your country is in because of people like you.

Originally Posted by taper71

That s right tuck tail and run. There is nothing to understand. Because of being afraid to stand up to people like Custom Drywall people like you accept lower rates and a much lower standard of living , which in turn affects the trade as a whole.

Just for the record labor prices to board go from .22 cents all the way up to .45 cents all depending on job difficulty. The only thing boarders supply is their tools ,glue, screws, and nails. The drywall contractors make there profit off the materials, and service work after the fact. Very few steal from the guys doing the actual work. Finishing is the same rates plus $1.20 to 2.30 lft for bead. Now we have a pretty high cost of living around here so that does come into as a factor. Remember that this is a skilled trade it is not like we are serving coffee, we are beating the hell out of ourselves and deserve to be compensated for that by having a decent pay.

Originally Posted by jim

if i supply all mat. tools etc what is a fair labor only sq. ft. price?

Originally Posted by Custom Drywall Svc.

let me guess....(no offense) but you're a white boy?

in the 30 years ive done business, all the 'white boys' want to be paid double, and do less work.

which is why for the majority of my 30 years ive employed mostly minorities (mexicans and asians).

first off, they work harder, and dont DEMAND as much money per hour, or piecework.

so Taper71, no offense at all man, seriously.....i really respect what your saying, and i agree.....i do..............but, this is MY reality.......and the reality of my business.....and the way the reality of the labor market here in california.

dont pick on Chris above......at least he knows it is unfortunately the reality.

to put it bluntly (im sure a lot of people will agree), it sucks to be a 'whiteboy' in the labor market of construction......unless you move yourself up to a superintendent, foreman, manager position whatever...........

YOU my friend, do not have a future. and im saying that not condescendingly, but within the context of stark reality. its BEEN a reality of construction.

the other drywall companies im allies with, i do not know a SINGLE 'whiteboy' working for them.

Sorry to offend you, but hey....this is just my reality. whiteboys try to work for me.......then turnaround and say, "well....im a journeyman, and i need at least $25 per hour plus benefits"

seems like everyones a 'journeyman' nowadays.....

my finisher Hector makes $15 an hour, 6 - 8 cents piecework......ANNNNND is TWICE as good and fast as any whiteboys i seen.

hah, and in no way am i being racist or discriminatory, never -- JUST realistic.

all the whiteboys that have worked for me work like this (and id hate to generalize, but its true).......they want $25/ hour.......get to the jobsite at 9 am.........one hour lunch at noon........and start packing up to leave by 4pm.........


.......please.


sighhh, anyways........im not tryin to cause a ruckus here for ANYONE...in this forum.......but hey, 100% of people go into business THEMSELVES for frustrations they suffer as an employee.

NO ONE is stopping anyone from being a business owner -- no one.

also, being able to adapt to your environment is key in construction...........rice and beans is the labor market now.....not 'white rice'......what are YOU going to do about it? Taper71, you mentioned 'changing careers' i remember, above.......i suggest you listen to your own advice.

same thing happend in los angeles, african americans were a majority in the labor market back in the day for construction.....now its completely turned to hispanics. as tony soprano would say, "wha you gon do?"


again.........im not tryin to offend anyone on this forum, but step into my shoes for a day as a business owner.....


- are you going to pay someone $25/per hour thats lazy, or are you going to pay $12 per hour to someone who will work their tail off for you....i got a stack of applications of hispanics who will work anywhere from just $8 - $15 per hour for me, just LINING up............and a small stack of 'whiteboy journeymen' who want $25 - $48 per hour that give an excuse that, 'well i used to work a union'.........i really dont give a f--k, sorry. what will YOU do when u are a business owner trying to make decisions like this? afterall, wtf are you even in business for in the first place!?!? to give yourself a pat on the back and say you made a difference in the world? PLEASE....save it, and go work for a non-profit agency.


- do you know how much my workers comp is? do you know what its like paying that every year? do you know the stresses i have making sure ALL of my employees are safe?

- do you know what its like walking around every minute with 100 hispanic liabilities waiting to sue you because they dont know how to stand on a scaffold or ladder?

- do you know how much general liability is? auto? do you even know the ridiculous stipulations insurance companies require, just so i can do business in California?

- do you know what its like to have overhead? overhead stays fixed and does not care how much money you have or dont have., how slow or busy your company is.........do you know the feeling of this?

- do you know the feeling of thinking about jobs from the moment you get up in the morning, to the moment you rest your head at night??? employees, their day ends at 5pm..........my day ends on sunday afternoon, if im lucky.....do you know what this feels like? the toll of stress?

- do you know the feeling of making sure your employees have a paycheck at the end of the week? do you know the feeling that julio or juan has 6 kids at home, and depends on my livelihood in order to survive and feed their family? let alone MY family....

- do you know what its like paying $20,000 because an employee of another company feel off MY scaffolding? do you know what thats like??

- DO YOU KNOW.......WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A BUSINESS OWNER VS. AN EMPLOYEE.


......oh, but hey.....im a 'business owner'....life is a bowl of cherries.........all i do is sit in my office....watch the money pour in......dress nice......and let the stress sit on the back of my labor.

yea, piece of cake.

Originally Posted by ThatDrywallGuy

Just for the record, i am a drywall contractor, in the same boat as
Custom Drywall. i dont work for .08 a sq. nor do i pay .08 and never will, but to think you know whats going on in another country let alone his neck of the woods
is plain ignorant on your part.

when i have hanger A, who will hang for .10 ,and hanger B who will hang
for .20 with all things being equal ,who in the hell do you think im gonna pick? its not about selling yourself, its who will get the job done n leave me with enough money to pay the liability ins., workers comp ,yellow pages ads, phones, taxes, warehouse, material bills , gas and my time. its a fine line.

you my friend ,dont know what the hell your talking about.

your cost of living is higher, your taxes are way higher, and you dont have the amount of competition we have.

your not comparing apples to apples

$5 here is like $10 there with everything factored in.

and who in the hell are you to say im scared of standing up to anybody?

come down here with your prices and see if you can pickup a job, any job
they would send you back to Canada with a Hockey Puck in your teeth
and a bottle of Molson shoved up your a$$.

Chris

I for one do take offense to the "whiteboy" statements made by custom drywall.
my best guys are white and get first crack at everything i do. but i do know his plight when it comes to the prices

Originally Posted by Custom Drywall Svc.

let me guess....(no offense) but you're a white boy?

in the 30 years ive done business, all the 'white boys' want to be paid double, and do less work.

which is why for the majority of my 30 years ive employed mostly minorities (mexicans and asians).

first off, they work harder, and dont DEMAND as much money per hour, or piecework.

so Taper71, no offense at all man, seriously.....i really respect what your saying, and i agree.....i do..............but, this is MY reality.......and the reality of my business.....and the way the reality of the labor market here in california.

dont pick on Chris above......at least he knows it is unfortunately the reality.

to put it bluntly (im sure a lot of people will agree), it sucks to be a 'whiteboy' in the labor market of construction......unless you move yourself up to a superintendent, foreman, manager position whatever...........

YOU my friend, do not have a future. and im saying that not condescendingly, but within the context of stark reality. its BEEN a reality of construction.

the other drywall companies im allies with, i do not know a SINGLE 'whiteboy' working for them.

Sorry to offend you, but hey....this is just my reality. whiteboys try to work for me.......then turnaround and say, "well....im a journeyman, and i need at least $25 per hour plus benefits"

seems like everyones a 'journeyman' nowadays.....

my finisher Hector makes $15 an hour, 6 - 8 cents piecework......ANNNNND is TWICE as good and fast as any whiteboys i seen.

hah, and in no way am i being racist or discriminatory, never -- JUST realistic.

all the whiteboys that have worked for me work like this (and id hate to generalize, but its true).......they want $25/ hour.......get to the jobsite at 9 am.........one hour lunch at noon........and start packing up to leave by 4pm.........


.......please.


sighhh, anyways........im not tryin to cause a ruckus here for ANYONE...in this forum.......but hey, 100% of people go into business THEMSELVES for frustrations they suffer as an employee.

NO ONE is stopping anyone from being a business owner -- no one.

also, being able to adapt to your environment is key in construction...........rice and beans is the labor market now.....not 'white rice'......what are YOU going to do about it? Taper71, you mentioned 'changing careers' i remember, above.......i suggest you listen to your own advice.

same thing happend in los angeles, african americans were a majority in the labor market back in the day for construction.....now its completely turned to hispanics. as tony soprano would say, "wha you gon do?"


again.........im not tryin to offend anyone on this forum, but step into my shoes for a day as a business owner.....


- are you going to pay someone $25/per hour thats lazy, or are you going to pay $12 per hour to someone who will work their tail off for you....i got a stack of applications of hispanics who will work anywhere from just $8 - $15 per hour for me, just LINING up............and a small stack of 'whiteboy journeymen' who want $25 - $48 per hour that give an excuse that, 'well i used to work a union'.........i really dont give a f--k, sorry. what will YOU do when u are a business owner trying to make decisions like this? afterall, wtf are you even in business for in the first place!?!? to give yourself a pat on the back and say you made a difference in the world? PLEASE....save it, and go work for a non-profit agency.


- do you know how much my workers comp is? do you know what its like paying that every year? do you know the stresses i have making sure ALL of my employees are safe?

- do you know what its like walking around every minute with 100 hispanic liabilities waiting to sue you because they dont know how to stand on a scaffold or ladder?

- do you know how much general liability is? auto? do you even know the ridiculous stipulations insurance companies require, just so i can do business in California?

- do you know what its like to have overhead? overhead stays fixed and does not care how much money you have or dont have., how slow or busy your company is.........do you know the feeling of this?

- do you know the feeling of thinking about jobs from the moment you get up in the morning, to the moment you rest your head at night??? employees, their day ends at 5pm..........my day ends on sunday afternoon, if im lucky.....do you know what this feels like? the toll of stress?

- do you know the feeling of making sure your employees have a paycheck at the end of the week? do you know the feeling that julio or juan has 6 kids at home, and depends on my livelihood in order to survive and feed their family? let alone MY family....

- do you know what its like paying $20,000 because an employee of another company feel off MY scaffolding? do you know what thats like??

- DO YOU KNOW.......WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A BUSINESS OWNER VS. AN EMPLOYEE.


......oh, but hey.....im a 'business owner'....life is a bowl of cherries.........all i do is sit in my office....watch the money pour in......dress nice......and let the stress sit on the back of my labor.

yea, piece of cake.

Originally Posted by taper71

What are you after ? A pat on the back for being a crooked SOB in a country that has enabled you to do so. You make it sound like you are so rightous helping out the illegal minorities and justifying it by bad mouthing the white folk. Man are you ever ignorant. The only person you are looking out for is you. Why dont you fill out your profile so someone can report you and maybe get one more crook out of the construction industry and give back to the legal tradesmen . I have never in my whole life been more proud to be a Canadian than I am after reading what you Americans have to put up with with people like Custom Drywall.

Originally Posted by ThatDrywallGuy

one more thing, you do know of our housing crisis?

that bring competition up even more, we have 50 drywall companies bidding on one house and you have to bid slim if your even going to be considered for the work
so its not all rosie here,no matter what side of the fence your on.

Chris

Originally Posted by ThatDrywallGuy

Just for the record, i am a drywall contractor, in the same boat as
Custom Drywall. i dont work for .08 a sq. nor do i pay .08 and never will, but to think you know whats going on in another country let alone his neck of the woods
is plain ignorant on your part.

when i have hanger A, who will hang for .10 ,and hanger B who will hang
for .20 with all things being equal ,who in the hell do you think im gonna pick? its not about selling yourself, its who will get the job done n leave me with enough money to pay the liability ins., workers comp ,yellow pages ads, phones, taxes, warehouse, material bills , gas and my time. its a fine line.

you my friend ,dont know what the hell your talking about.

your cost of living is higher, your taxes are way higher, and you dont have the amount of competition we have.

your not comparing apples to apples

$5 here is like $10 there with everything factored in.

and who in the hell are you to say im scared of standing up to anybody?

come down here with your prices and see if you can pickup a job, any job
they would send you back to Canada with a Hockey Puck in your teeth
and a bottle of Molson shoved up your a$$.

Chris

I for one do take offense to the "whiteboy" statements made by custom drywall.
my best guys are white and get first crack at everything i do. but i do know his plight when it comes to the prices

Originally Posted by Custom Drywall Svc.

let me guess....(no offense) but you're a white boy?

in the 30 years Ive done business, all the 'white boys' want to be paid double, and do less work.

which is why for the majority of my 30 years Ive employed mostly minorities (mexicans and asians).

first off, they work harder, and dont DEMAND as much money per hour, or piecework.

so Taper71, no offense at all man, seriously.....i really respect what your saying, and i agree.....i do..............but, this is MY reality.......and the reality of my business.....and the way the reality of the labor market here in california.

dont pick on Chris above......at least he knows it is unfortunately the reality.

to put it bluntly (im sure a lot of people will agree), it sucks to be a 'whiteboy' in the labor market of construction......unless you move yourself up to a superintendent, foreman, manager position whatever...........

YOU my friend, do not have a future. and im saying that not condescendingly, but within the context of stark reality. its BEEN a reality of construction.

the other drywall companies im allies with, i do not know a SINGLE 'whiteboy' working for them.

Sorry to offend you, but hey....this is just my reality. whiteboys try to work for me.......then turnaround and say, "well....im a journeyman, and i need at least $25 per hour plus benefits"

seems like everyones a 'journeyman' nowadays.....

my finisher Hector makes $15 an hour, 6 - 8 cents piecework......ANNNNND is TWICE as good and fast as any whiteboys i seen.

hah, and in no way am i being racist or discriminatory, never -- JUST realistic.

all the whiteboys that have worked for me work like this (and id hate to generalize, but its true).......they want $25/ hour.......get to the jobsite at 9 am.........one hour lunch at noon........and start packing up to leave by 4pm.........


.......please.


sighhh, anyways........im not tryin to cause a ruckus here for ANYONE...in this forum.......but hey, 100% of people go into business THEMSELVES for frustrations they suffer as an employee.

NO ONE is stopping anyone from being a business owner -- no one.

also, being able to adapt to your environment is key in construction...........rice and beans is the labor market now.....not 'white rice'......what are YOU going to do about it? Taper71, you mentioned 'changing careers' i remember, above.......i suggest you listen to your own advice.

same thing happend in los angeles, african americans were a majority in the labor market back in the day for construction.....now its completely turned to hispanics. as tony soprano would say, "wha you gon do?"


again.........im not tryin to offend anyone on this forum, but step into my shoes for a day as a business owner.....


- are you going to pay someone $25/per hour thats lazy, or are you going to pay $12 per hour to someone who will work their tail off for you....i got a stack of applications of hispanics who will work anywhere from just $8 - $15 per hour for me, just LINING up............and a small stack of 'whiteboy journeymen' who want $25 - $48 per hour that give an excuse that, 'well i used to work a union'.........i really dont give a f--k, sorry. what will YOU do when u are a business owner trying to make decisions like this? afterall, wtf are you even in business for in the first place!?!? to give yourself a pat on the back and say you made a difference in the world? PLEASE....save it, and go work for a non-profit agency.


- do you know how much my workers comp is? do you know what its like paying that every year? do you know the stresses i have making sure ALL of my employees are safe?

- do you know what its like walking around every minute with 100 hispanic liabilities waiting to sue you because they dont know how to stand on a scaffold or ladder?

- do you know how much general liability is? auto? do you even know the ridiculous stipulations insurance companies require, just so i can do business in California?

- do you know what its like to have overhead? overhead stays fixed and does not care how much money you have or dont have., how slow or busy your company is.........do you know the feeling of this?

- do you know the feeling of thinking about jobs from the moment you get up in the morning, to the moment you rest your head at night??? employees, their day ends at 5pm..........my day ends on sunday afternoon, if im lucky.....do you know what this feels like? the toll of stress?

- do you know the feeling of making sure your employees have a paycheck at the end of the week? do you know the feeling that julio or juan has 6 kids at home, and depends on my livelihood in order to survive and feed their family? let alone MY family....

- do you know what its like paying $20,000 because an employee of another company feel off MY scaffolding? do you know what thats like??

- DO YOU KNOW.......WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A BUSINESS OWNER VS. AN EMPLOYEE.


......oh, but hey.....im a 'business owner'....life is a bowl of cherries.........all i do is sit in my office....watch the money pour in......dress nice......and let the stress sit on the back of my labor.

yea, piece of cake.

Originally Posted by silverstilts

Hey there get off your high horse there buddy what the hell quality of work do you do there anyway talk is cheap and you do get what you pay for .... if you want to work for free or hire slave labor move to another country where people don't give a rats ass , I have heard so much about how good according to you how you can do a quality job at a lot less cost , but at what cost only to the homeowner or contractor that has to deal with the mess and crappy work you leave behind..... I will never lower my standards but charge what i must and believe me and others I have heard if you do super work people will pay for it ........... and if you do work and run a buiness the way you spell well that don't say much does it now

Originally Posted by Custom Drywall Svc.

'and if you do work and run a buiness the way you spell well that don't say much does it now'

Whats a 'buiness?'

......

anyways, i do quality work.....my company isnt called Custom Drywall Service for the hell of it.

anyone on here can brag, and say whatever they want...no one ever meets each other or physically sees everyones work, so i understand i can literally say anything.....

but for the record,

my company specializes in large, high-end custom homes. thats my bread and butter. i do small to medium sized commercial projects, but what i LIKE to do is challenging new residential custom homes and custom home remodels.

as far as quality, my company is known to be THE one to call for challenging, complex work. i walk in and out of 1-5 million dollar homes ALL DAY....which demand HIGH quality and HIGH attention to detail.

another thing im known for is SERVICE.

i service the hell out of my customers and builders -- i INCLUDE that in the price....which leads me to my next point, i am RARELY the low bidder on a project.

if i was to do a crappy job as you suggest, i would take that out of my price, and get the job everytime......but i dont. 80% of my work comes from referrals. Builders know that when they call me they dont call me because theyre tryin to save on price but that they expect quality.

again...i can say WHATEVERRRR i want on here, but this is the god honest truth.

this companies been around since the early 1970s and will be here well into the next 20 years. i live in a medium sized town, and word spreads fast. i wouldnt be where i am today for doing 'blow and go' jobs.

yes, i get the job done CHEAP, and expect a HIGH return on my bids -- SUE ME. apparently, theres people on here that believe if you try to make a little money out of your business, you just committed murder.

BUY LOW SELL HIGH is ingrained into the way i do business. YES times are tough, and we cant expect as high a profit margin as we used to, but i believe if you cant make at least 20-25% profit margin, you have no right to be in business.

and i believe if you cant make at least 40-45% profit margin, you have no right to call yourself a business man.

and thats what i am, and that is the reason i am here -- to run a profitable business.

i do not open my doors because i love drywall.....please. i treat this like any other profitable business that relies heavily on the final-end product...and i deliver.

if i said i deliever 100% of the time, id be lying....but we ALL know how tough the drywall industry is, and sh-t happens whether its your fault or not.

what i do know, is that my 'slave labor' is happy just to be working.
they may not be making wages that they want, BUT WHAT EMPLOYEE IS???????

the loyal employees, i give full medical benefits and perks like no other company around.

yes, i may try to get the job done as cheap as i can, but at the end of the day i take CARE of my employees.

i just got finished unloading a truck of about 50 turkeys to my employees....
and 2 weeks ago, i just bought a freaking crib and 3 month supply of diapers to one of my hispanic finishers who just had a beautiful baby girl.

so dont talk to me like im the anti-christ for employing 'slave labor.' im sick of it.

ZERO of my 50 employees are illegal....each and everyone has every right to work for me. nearly 40 of them are hispanic, and 10 of them are south-east asian descent.

you know....the main forum this whole thread lies under i believe is called "business, marketing, and sales"

however, when i shed light on the way i do business and make money, im crucified for it.

what makes me different than any other profitable american business, let alone ANY other profitable business in this world?

HELL yes i try to get the job done as cheap as i can and with the highest quality.

all you who apparently 'detest' my business practices........ill tell u one thing:

try to open and run your own business. maybe then youll see and confront the struggles i go through.....the decisions i make on a daily basis.

i would love to hear your experiences...and id be more than happy to give you advice because i KNOW how f--king tough it is as well as others on this forum who share my plight.

trust me, id LOVE to pay my employees top dollar and make each and everyone happy............however

THE SIMPLE REALITY is that i cant.

try to open your own business, and youll see.............for the meantime, NO ONE criticizing me has room to talk....because you just do NOT know what its like to run a business, let alone making it profitable.

if youre a business owner and not making money, what are you doing then???

are you simply trying to stay busy???

are you simply trying to trade dollars back and forth???


WHAT is ANYONE essentially in business for?????????