Builders doing an End-Around - Page 2 - Drywall Talk - Professional Drywall and Finishing Contractors Forum

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-08-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Right now it's no skin off me, but as my previous posts....something we need to take note of. Most builders doing this are simply in cost cutting mode and have no idea what they're getting into. And I really don't want these builders as clients, most aren't keeping up on their bills elsewhere. But when things do pick up, I'll remember that they took food off my table and rate them for it.

...exactly.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-18-2009, 01:44 AM

im pissed, and i gotta vent.

i just got beat out on my 20k bid, buy a guy doing it for 9k....

the builder, (which i THOUGHT was a loyal customer) told me straight out, 'hey im ready for you on this T.I. you bid for me a few months ago...................but......i got a bid from another drywall guy, and he came in around 11k lower than you......can you match that? maybe you wanna take another look at it, since its all framed...it looks smaller than the plan you bid off of"

....

......eleven......thousand..........yes, you read that right........

i flat out told him 'ur fkkn insane, thats nearly less than my freakin cost for that job............im high, compared to WHO???"

then he told me it was some (no offense) beans n rice general contractor...not even a dedicated drywall contractor........who is handling his plumbing...hvac.....and yes, drywall.

sigh......this is just the crap u were talkin about above darren. these generals that just try to do everything with their own guys.....in the process making us look 'high'

and i bid this job FAIR too......what it SHOULD be bidding at. and some guy comes in 60% lower than me.......

seriously, just ridiculous.

dont you guys hate these companies? these GC's that cant even afford to be in business just BLOWING your fair price out of the water.

not right.

Whitey97 · 04-18-2009, 02:19 AM

Honestly I haven't seen a bean dipper in Mn for a while. I had a few of them reply to a CL ad but the majority are livin' the high life back in meh-he-co

**Darren@Partners** · 04-19-2009, 10:00 AM

Custom, feel ya. Makes you just want to cry, doesn't it? It's gonna get worse, I'm afraid. I keep bid probing for a floor in the pricing and I think I now know where it is and am too embarassed to even type that number and scared too that a prospective client might see it. PM me and I'll indulge you.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-19-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Custom, feel ya. Makes you just want to cry, doesn't it? It's gonna get worse, I'm afraid. I keep bid probing for a floor in the pricing and I think I now know where it is and am too embarassed to even type that number and scared too that a prospective client might see it. PM me and I'll indulge you.

damn right im scared Darren.

people bidding jobs at my usual COST, yea im fkkn terrified quite frankly.

**Darren@Partners** · 04-19-2009, 09:05 PM

Yeh, everyone's running at commercial about now, the next shoe to drop. They've beat that down to pulp too. I'm more terrified of getting a bid now at these prices.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-19-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Yeh, everyone's running at commercial about now, the next shoe to drop. They've beat that down to pulp too. I'm more terrified of getting a bid now at these prices.

we're you watching CNN this morning? hahhaha......

yea, they were talking about how much commercial has spun down as of late.

and seriously darren, i bid jobs now, where i say to myself "if i don't get this job, at this LOW of a price -- that's actually a good thing"

.......scarier than that.......i DON'T get most of those jobs were i say that to myself.

....how BAD is that???? i seriously gotta stop comin to this forum guys, hahahahah....its startin to make me depressed. think i needa break.

we should all.

**Darren@Partners** · 04-19-2009, 09:49 PM

Oh and by the way, over on CT on Chinese Drywall thread, USG just named as defendant along with Knaupf... Sorry, full of good news today, ain't I? Trying to get it all out of my system to start off the week fresh tomorrow.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-20-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Oh and by the way, over on CT on Chinese Drywall thread, USG just named as defendant along with Knaupf... Sorry, full of good news today, ain't I? Trying to get it all out of my system to start off the week fresh tomorrow.

...kidding me.

sigh. nice.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-20-2009, 11:11 AM

Darren, you're just full of good news lately, hahaha.

rockdaddy · 07-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Right now it's the golden rule. The ones with all the gold are changing all the rules. The days of working on a handshake are well behind us and the buildershave discovered that because they have all the money they have better buying power than most of us and can strike volume deals with the manufacturers who strike their deals with the suppliers who take their turns at cheating us. The smart ones realize that they can keep track of the footages of the houses and monitor costs but in the end when things are in toilet like they are now, they would rather us deal with the board so they can layoff the mummy in purchasing.

**Darren@Partners** · 07-02-2009, 10:48 PM

Maybe Pulte or the nationwide guys can do as you described Rockdaddy, but damn few builders put up more homes per year than we rocked per year (pre 2006). I've not seen any builder buy from the manufacturer - ever. In fact, when quoting apartments and hotels, have been told by suppliers that the "mill-direct" deals are a thing of the past. But there is still a way to negotiate rock prices down.

The new thing is for the builders to buy the rock and then hire hacks to hang/scrap & tape/spray/sand. One builder told me he was saving 25% vs his last legit drywall contractor, he just doesn't get anyone to do call-backs....until he does the next house. Then he makes the hack go do the call-back and then gives him his check.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 07-03-2009, 01:23 AM

you can buy straight from the manufacturer if its enough volume. but were talkin millions of square feet.

i know that in vegas, hotel owners were buying direct from USG for their hotels. million upon millions of square feet.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 07-03-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Maybe Pulte or the nationwide guys can do as you described Rockdaddy, but damn few builders put up more homes per year than we rocked per year (pre 2006). I've not seen any builder buy from the manufacturer - ever. In fact, when quoting apartments and hotels, have been told by suppliers that the "mill-direct" deals are a thing of the past. But there is still a way to negotiate rock prices down.

The new thing is for the builders to buy the rock and then hire hacks to hang/scrap & tape/spray/sand. One builder told me he was saving 25% vs his last legit drywall contractor, he just doesn't get anyone to do call-backs....until he does the next house. Then he makes the hack go do the call-back and then gives him his check.

darren, ive never seen A builder buy direct...........but, ive heard of builderS pooling together buying direct.....kinda pisses ya off doesnt it....

**Darren@Partners** · 07-03-2009, 08:22 AM

The suppliers that go along with this evidently don't realize that the drywall contractor is their mainstay. Georgia Pacific pulled this stunt in the 70's(on the lumberyards). I know a couple old lumbermen that still won't even buy GP toilet paper. It nearly broke GP. Which manufacturer is doing this? I vote with my wallet.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 07-03-2009, 12:59 PM

round my way....

i knew a drywall contractor in bed with a supplier.

they literally used the same warehouse to operate out of.

the main reason for this partnership, was of course they were scratchin each others back....the drywall sub got dirt dirt dirt cheap prices (lowering all his bids, basically LOCKING up a good market share in my area due to his cheap bids, you could imagine) while the supplier of course was providing the sheetrock for everyone of those jobs.

this was mainly tract homes....they had it sowed up, lotta the other mainstay drywall guys like myself were really pissed of course -- this was illegal.

now, i talk in the past tense because once tract homes fell out due to the recession, they had to close down, hahahhahah.

**Darren@Partners** · 07-03-2009, 02:19 PM

One supplier here was owned jointly by 3 drywall contractors. Even had their offices inside the same building. I would buy a stick bead in there. Those that do buy there often have their clients "poached".

My former supplier (closed his doors last month, I'd quit him last year) had been building duplex and fourplexes up north out of my market. As he was building them and keeping them as a "retirement" I really didn't let it bother me. Then about two years ago, partners with a guy and starts in on tract homes not 20 minutes from me and had purchased 80 acres of res. development ground one zip code away. Drove away most of us contractors and was left chasing hotel and apartment jobs. Greedy ba$tard. That practice, I felt, put him in direct competition with my clients, unfairly, as he sold himself all the material at cost or below. It cost him his livlihood and rightly so.

07-02-2009, 10:48 PM	#32
Darren@Partners Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 830	Maybe Pulte or the nationwide guys can do as you described Rockdaddy, but damn few builders put up more homes per year than we rocked per year (pre 2006). I've not seen any builder buy from the manufacturer - ever. In fact, when quoting apartments and hotels, have been told by suppliers that the "mill-direct" deals are a thing of the past. But there is still a way to negotiate rock prices down. The new thing is for the builders to buy the rock and then hire hacks to hang/scrap & tape/spray/sand. One builder told me he was saving 25% vs his last legit drywall contractor, he just doesn't get anyone to do call-backs....until he does the next house. Then he makes the hack go do the call-back and then gives him his check. __________________ www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

07-03-2009, 08:22 AM	#35
Darren@Partners Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 830	The suppliers that go along with this evidently don't realize that the drywall contractor is their mainstay. Georgia Pacific pulled this stunt in the 70's(on the lumberyards). I know a couple old lumbermen that still won't even buy GP toilet paper. It nearly broke GP. Which manufacturer is doing this? I vote with my wallet. __________________ www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

07-03-2009, 02:19 PM	#37
Darren@Partners Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 830	One supplier here was owned jointly by 3 drywall contractors. Even had their offices inside the same building. I would buy a stick bead in there. Those that do buy there often have their clients "poached". My former supplier (closed his doors last month, I'd quit him last year) had been building duplex and fourplexes up north out of my market. As he was building them and keeping them as a "retirement" I really didn't let it bother me. Then about two years ago, partners with a guy and starts in on tract homes not 20 minutes from me and had purchased 80 acres of res. development ground one zip code away. Drove away most of us contractors and was left chasing hotel and apartment jobs. Greedy ba$tard. That practice, I felt, put him in direct competition with my clients, unfairly, as he sold himself all the material at cost or below. It cost him his livlihood and rightly so. __________________ www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

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04-18-2009, 01:44 AM	#22
Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 408	im pissed, and i gotta vent. i just got beat out on my 20k bid, buy a guy doing it for 9k.... the builder, (which i THOUGHT was a loyal customer) told me straight out, 'hey im ready for you on this T.I. you bid for me a few months ago...................but......i got a bid from another drywall guy, and he came in around 11k lower than you......can you match that? maybe you wanna take another look at it, since its all framed...it looks smaller than the plan you bid off of" .... ......eleven......thousand..........yes, you read that right........ i flat out told him 'ur fkkn insane, thats nearly less than my freakin cost for that job............im high, compared to WHO???" then he told me it was some (no offense) beans n rice general contractor...not even a dedicated drywall contractor........who is handling his plumbing...hvac.....and yes, drywall. sigh......this is just the crap u were talkin about above darren. these generals that just try to do everything with their own guys.....in the process making us look 'high' and i bid this job FAIR too......what it SHOULD be bidding at. and some guy comes in 60% lower than me....... seriously, just ridiculous. dont you guys hate these companies? these GC's that cant even afford to be in business just BLOWING your fair price out of the water. not right.

04-18-2009, 02:19 AM	#23
Whitey97 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Twin Cities Mn Posts: 941	Honestly I haven't seen a bean dipper in Mn for a while. I had a few of them reply to a CL ad but the majority are livin' the high life back in meh-he-co

04-19-2009, 10:00 AM	#24
Darren@Partners Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 830	Custom, feel ya. Makes you just want to cry, doesn't it? It's gonna get worse, I'm afraid. I keep bid probing for a floor in the pricing and I think I now know where it is and am too embarassed to even type that number and scared too that a prospective client might see it. PM me and I'll indulge you.

04-19-2009, 09:05 PM	#26
Darren@Partners Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 830	Yeh, everyone's running at commercial about now, the next shoe to drop. They've beat that down to pulp too. I'm more terrified of getting a bid now at these prices.

04-19-2009, 09:49 PM	#28
Darren@Partners Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 830	Oh and by the way, over on CT on Chinese Drywall thread, USG just named as defendant along with Knaupf... Sorry, full of good news today, ain't I? Trying to get it all out of my system to start off the week fresh tomorrow.

04-20-2009, 11:11 AM	#30
Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 408	Darren, you're just full of good news lately, hahaha.

07-02-2009, 09:58 PM	#31
rockdaddy Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 93	Right now it's the golden rule. The ones with all the gold are changing all the rules. The days of working on a handshake are well behind us and the buildershave discovered that because they have all the money they have better buying power than most of us and can strike volume deals with the manufacturers who strike their deals with the suppliers who take their turns at cheating us. The smart ones realize that they can keep track of the footages of the houses and monitor costs but in the end when things are in toilet like they are now, they would rather us deal with the board so they can layoff the mummy in purchasing.

07-03-2009, 01:23 AM	#33
Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 408	you can buy straight from the manufacturer if its enough volume. but were talkin millions of square feet. i know that in vegas, hotel owners were buying direct from USG for their hotels. million upon millions of square feet.

07-03-2009, 12:59 PM	#36
Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 408	round my way.... i knew a drywall contractor in bed with a supplier. they literally used the same warehouse to operate out of. the main reason for this partnership, was of course they were scratchin each others back....the drywall sub got dirt dirt dirt cheap prices (lowering all his bids, basically LOCKING up a good market share in my area due to his cheap bids, you could imagine) while the supplier of course was providing the sheetrock for everyone of those jobs. this was mainly tract homes....they had it sowed up, lotta the other mainstay drywall guys like myself were really pissed of course -- this was illegal. now, i talk in the past tense because once tract homes fell out due to the recession, they had to close down, hahahhahah.