Weldcrete for Drywall Cracking

Custom Drywall Svc.

Hey guys,

I've had some issues with getting bad pallets of mud recently (that may be a whole 'nother thread and topic in itself).

i've had perfect horizontal cracking on the walls AND ceiling of this custom home we finished -- it looks like an earthquake disrupted the whole house, its THAT bad (which leads me even more to blame the mud). settling definitely may be to blame PARTLY for it, but not 100%. i strongly feel that the mud we used was defective as well, of course the manufacturer will never own up to this, or even the possibility of it...which is complete chicken s--t if you ask me.

anyways, what ive been doing recently in situations like this, is using Weldcrete bonding agent. this stuff is used to glue freakin concrete together, so its definitely strong. for those of you unfamiliar with the technical name, its that 'blue stuff' that looks like paint.

the main thing im concerned about of course, is for the cracking NOT to come back. so far, Weldcrete seems to be the key for that........

what ive done with these cracks, is have my patchman dig out the crack, forming a V-groove.....with whatever tool he wants (he usually uses his own car keys), then i have him take a paintbrush and apply it inside all along these grooves....making sure it gets in there and builds up inside the crack.

from that point, we let it dry for an hour or so (more if we can), and quickset over the patch to texture it (in this case, im talking about a hand textured house.....spray textured house, you can do the same procedure, but anyways...).

after the quickset dries, i then paint over it with hamilton prep coat.....just to get the two substrates to a level finish....in this case, was a smooth pool troweled hand texture.....so, perform accordingly to your texture of course.

anyways, this SEEMS to be the golden product in situations like this (knock on wood).

but id love to hear your guys thoughts on Weldcrete for cracking.......if you have tried it, or will try it in the future.

agian, the main reason i use this product, is for the cracking NOT to come back since its such a strong bonding agent. quickset alone, and spackling, whatever just doesnt seem to do it -- cracks always return...however, this weldcrete seems to be IT.

thanks guys, im sure ill hear from someone soon!

(oh btw, in this house....the paper tape itself has NOT CRACKED....just the mud alone -- food for thought.)

joepro0000

hmmm... sounds interesting. I'd probably just tape the cracks just to save the money going out to buy the stuff, and if they cracked again, I would use it. I have always paper taped cracks. Unless it was a T&M job, sure why not.

drywallnflorida

sounds like the board is floating (not broke on a stud)

Muddauber

I know of a drywall contractor who had the same seam cracking as you about a year ago. A USG rep. met him at a job sight to have a look at the problem and advised him to use another manufacturers mud.
So much for manufacturers warranty ,huh.

Custom Drywall Svc.

Floating?

but ALL of it? EVERY sheet? im talkin two big custom homes here, with PERFECT horizontal cracking (moreso blistering -- paper tape is NOT cracked) in 99% of the house.

one house is 3000 sf.....and the other one is near 6000 sf.....

these are fairly big houses.......and each house is experiencing the same problems, and were completed in the exact same time, roughly a week apart. this all leads me to believe the mud has a defect.....it just seems like theres no adhesive or glue in the mud. even my patchguy who has been patching for 20 years told me hes never seen the mud react like how its doing for these two houses. and its the two houses ALONE, i havnt had this phenomena happen to ANY other houses -- not this bad at least...like i said above, we're talkin 99%......not just one corner of the house....not just a few rooms.....but EVERY single room, nearly every sheet you can visibly SEE...its terrible.

anyways, again....this topic is a whole nother thread........

but weldcrete is the solution to these two jobs for me at least, as well as any other miscellaneous cracking -- its great, i think.

Custom Drywall Svc.

.............wow, hahhahahhaha......ur kidding?

Custom Drywall Svc.

nah, not T&M.....freakin manufacturer wont even help me out...im basically eating the profit i THOUGHT i made from these houses.......thats fine, i bid my jobs high anyways, for situations just like this.

anyways, i dont see the need to tape over these, because the actual paper tape underneath is NOT cracked.....the mudhowever, is literally falling off.....blistering off..........again, which leads me to beleive there is a mud defect.

freakin manufacturers wont even admit this.......they wouldnt even take a sample of the mud to analyse, or the batch #'s off the mud boxes we saved!!

some help huh!?

brdn_drywall

just out of curiosity which brand of mud did you use?

Custom Drywall Svc.

hamilton/westpac......

didnt really want to bring up the name if i didnt have to....but there it is. ive switched all my mud out to USG.....

thing is though, it doesnt matter who you use.......every brand is prone to defects -- it comes off a factory line and is mass produced....s--t happens, and its understandable to me.......i just wish some of these manufacturers would realize that, and admit it. the rep comes out to the house, and within less than 5 minutes of being there, goes out and says to me and the homeowner "well, first off...this isnt a product defect..."

yea, thanks buddy......guy didnt even bother to grab a sample to take back to the lab.

sigh, anyways.....point is, ive had bad mud from both USG and hamilton/westpac before........again, this stuff comes off a factory line -- its not 100% perfect.....whats to say the machine or whatever for some reason didnt shoot the glue/adhesive into these batches of mud that i happen to get..........its not impossible that would happen. its all machinery controlled by computers. we all know even computers arent perfect.

joepro0000

Damn that sucks, I guess the mud is defective. Funny its a perfecly horizontal crack, seems strange. Hopefully I don't ever have to experience this, but if I do i'll remember the weldcrete method.

Whitey97

Where are you located? I know that up here in the "nort country" if it's too cold out, and there isn't any insulation poured in yet, funny things like that can happen. Are you prefilling any of the seams that are cracking with fast set? if so, maybe that needs more time to set up and is reacting. These are all problems I've had over the years. Just thought I would share, though I agree it's more than likely a defect. I might have to try your fix next time I go patch someone elses hack work. Thanks

Custom Drywall Svc.

whitey,

id rather not disclose where im from specifically, if you dont mind.

anywyas...........thing is, with these 2 specific houses.....great care was taken for several reasons. first, being they were high-end custom homes of course, and primarily second, they were each very influential homeowners in the construction industry here -- i had to make SURE it was a quality job because our company reputation was on the line. in that regard, i was extra cautious that each coat was dry before laying on the next -- to avoid future problems of cracking, etc.

for example, btwn the 1st and 2nd coats, in the existing conditions at that time, it only required about 2 full days to dry -- i had it dry at least 4 days. plus, each house was to be heavily hand textured.....i still went ahead and performed level 5 finishes on both of them, just for the hell of it.

whitey, if by fast set youre referring to quickset, or hot mud.....then, no i do not use quick set. thats a huge no-no for our company. we only use quick set on small patches and miscellaneous small touch-ups, etc -- but not to completely finish houses with.

anyways,

yea, definitely try the weldcrete whitey. my patchman who has been patching all his life is singing praises for weldcrete right now since he's been using it. hes noticed in the past, by repairing cracks with quickset or spackle, that they would just end up cracking again days to weeks later.

remember when dealing with cracks, just carve them out with a key to form a v-groove.....and get a small brush for the weldcrete, and make SURE the weldcrete gets snugly inside those cracks...just jam the hairs of the brush inside them. after the entire crack is filled, ust walk away, and let it dry for at least 30-45 mins (depending on the weather)......although, i believe the manufacturer would recommend 1-2 hours, so if you can, take your time with it (although my company just cant afford to!).

after its dry, come back on it with normal quickset (we use 20 min.).

after that dries, texture accordingly.

we find this stuff is hard as a rock after it dries inside those cracks

after all, it CAN be used to glue freakin concrete together.....

http://www.larsenproducts.com/weldcrete.htm

check it out guys.

Whitey97

i wasn't trying to play you for a fool by any means my friend, It's just a very interesting and difficult problem to deal with I'm sure. I wish I could help you more with this.

Custom Drywall Svc.

No offense taken at any time whitey. With my reply, it may have sounded like i was offended, but no...

Anyways, this IS a very interesting problem.....and i feel us drywall guys need to stick together and come up with solutions for things like this.

by that, i specifically mean when drywall companies fall victim to mud defects or structural movement, causing cracking, etc. We all know how frustrating it can be when we get blamed for drywall issues that are beyond our control.

uneducated owners / builders will immediately blame the drywall subcontractor, i.e. 'us.'

so, again.....just think its in everyones best interest to stick together and educate as many other drywallers, contractors, clients, etc as we can...

sharing ideas on a forum like this is great i think.

good luck to all................especially in such an economic downturn as right now....everyones hurtin. just stay in there. This is just the normal business cycles to weed out all the bad blood (business) in our industry and others. Things will turn back up 2010 at the earliest (you can dream on if you think this year things will turn around).

Custom Drywall Svc.

Every drywaller needs to read these articles, literature, etc...


http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/...100000f932a8c0

http://www.hamiltonmaterials.com/Cra...ngCracking.pdf

http://www.gypsum.org/pdf/236-2000b.pdf

please feel free to share your thoughts.

Apple24

I think your projects took on a high level of humudity,which intern led to your rigding or beading. Did a large custom home, house was framed all winter got real wet. The builder threw more moisture into the home by running prpane heaters in basement subfloor just sucked it up. If you have mudd peeling or comming off the wall stop using so much soap ya don't need that **** anyway. Humidity is my worst enemy in michigan, its all good the day i leave then the heat cycle starts and the lumber shrinks and ridging occurs. If I do a smooth ceiling in the future I'll run Rc-1 channel with SW edge drywall, costs alot but only way to do a true smooth ceiling.Oh yeah your cheap labor may have something to do w your callbacks.

Whitey97

ouch... them there are fightin' words

Custom Drywall Svc.

RC-1 is great....i hear that. i try as much as i can to push that onto the customer...if not, i cant guarantee the job. this is something im implementing new nowadays at least.....i wish i had done this years ago though. I even offer it literally at cost to the customer...it's not necessarily a line item i make money off of because we WANT to do it. Environmental factors w/ drywall play such a huge role that we want to save the possible headache 6 mos to a year later.

as far as cheap labor, definitely not that my friend. The finisher i had on that job has worked with me for 15 years and makes over a 60k salary. i wouldnt call that cheap, and definitely not inexperienced. however, he's not making that NOW quite honestly, i can guarantee you that -- just too slow nowadays. And to clarify, callbacks are NOT a regular thing for my company as your post may have implied...........occasional, standard, minor callbacks, yes.......but something as big as this is rare.....maybe once every 1-2 years my company has to go through a 'problematic customer.' at the same time, i welcome it though, becuase it keeps me on my toes, and i still continue to educate myself as far as problem and solution. For example, the Weldcrete for cracks.....if i didnt go through this current problem, i probably wouldve never thought of using it. but like i said, my patchguy is required to keep at least a gallon in his truck at all times now, its been that great and helpful. we swear by it now nearly.

Apple, as far as humidity you are completely right. although, i didnt experience ridging on this house. i still attribute it to bad mud. i've seen what humidity can do to a house, and this was definitely not the cause of my problems (at least not the main cause, to be clear).

like i said, even my patchguy who i had fix this house, has been patching with me for over 20 years had even made a comment how he'd never seen anything like it -- and how the material (mud) just didnt 'feel' right when he was repairing the cracks, as if there was no adhesion in the mud at all.

Custom Drywall Svc.

hahaha, whitey...please do not instigate anything! hahhaha

im sure he didnt mean it offensively.

Whitey97

instigate? me? what? NEVER!