Sub Contractor bidding

**silverstilts** · 04-27-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Riggs88

How do you price a basement with a ceiling a few inches over 8' and they used 4' wide rock with the rip in the middle?

I guess I doubled the price on the ceiling footage and was curious on your system?

Where you at in Northern Mn? I actually grew up in Chisholm over on the Iron Range and lately I've been giving it some thought to move back...mostly because I love the outdoor thing up there.

Unless there is many lineal ft of rips I don't usually bother charging extra , but double up on the ceiling is a fair way since it only amounts to about 25 percent of the total price which will only add may .15 cents over all to the total price per ft , based on .58 per ft to tape & finish.... (I used 160 sheets over all )do you think $1100.00 is fair ? it may be a little high , but than again I suppose they could have used some 54" It's a tough call , you have to do what you seem right . I am sure if a homeowner used a bunch of scrap in the closets one would certainly have to charge more . so more work more money.

JoeMudder · 04-27-2009, 08:59 PM

Hate to be the one to notice guys but I think our conversation is drifting a bit. This thread is more intended for bidding than it is about recession. Also, if you notice my original post I was more interested in the bidding in northern Kentucky. No one seems to have been able to address this yet.

How about we open it up to the Cincinnati, Ohio area? Maybe that would make a bit of a difference. Anyone from there who can shed some light?

I did notice a company hiring hangers for temporary positions north of Cincinnati which was encouraging. Not sure what they are paying per foot but would be good to know stuff like that.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 04-27-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstilts

I agree you can't just double up on price anymore on anything over 8' Don't seem right with 54" board available for 9' walls don't have to worry about the rip. Also Gen. contractors hate when you have so many ways of pricing out a job , They need to keep it simple themselves to keep within there price , they themselves don't want to bother figuring out a job six different ways it is way too confusing for them . Have you ever had a GC say he can never figure out how we are pricing something? Keep it simple . I never subtract for window openings after all we need to base a price on something , carpet layers don't subtract for extra carpet waisted or roofers for scrap shingles it is all part of the bidding process , not only that you still have to mask off windows and it takes time and materials to do this so why subtract don't make any sense..... just one way a contractor wants to squeeze more out of you , I had one contractor always grip about the waste , i asked him what about all his plywood , 2x's exc. does he not pay for that waste ??? again it is all part of the bidding process ..... some things are just meant to be , not to say we can't charge more for extras like window wraps or excessive L-bead or specialty textures.

exactly right.

ANY GC........let me repeat, ANY GC who gripes about sheetrock 'waste'....'window openings'.........'doors'.........'wall with cabinets' (not kidding)......

any GC who gripes about these things, is either two things:

1. a bad GC (most likely bad at business as well)

or...

2. trying to take advantage of you (and probably every other sub)

dont put up with it, period. stilts, you obviously know what ur doing.

the best, most professional builders ive worked with have NEVER......NEVER EVER once questioned me about the above items when pricing.

on the otherhand............the 'fly by night' GC's will always try to pick your price apart, and have you bidding in circles. "oh well what about this wall, its mostly windows, dohhh....dohhhh"

cant stand these guys. the types of GC's who ask stupid questions in construction like this are usually the most uneducated ones. the ones that show up to meetings with food all over there shirt......with there hair unkept.........with alcohol on their breath........and eyes blood shot.

dont put up with it.

**silverstilts** · 04-28-2009, 07:41 AM

Makes me laugh thinking back at one contractor and this goes make over 30 years when I first started , My old boss use to do dynamic homes that came in halves , we would just tape them together usually a seam down the middle of the house , and re-text. Back then I was making the big bucks middle 70's a whole $4.50 an hour

which living at home and only just 17 was great , but the boss only charge them $100.00 per home , back to the point the GC son has carried on the business and still calls me to patch them together , He always shows up with dark sunglasses and when he does take them off his eyes are so blood shot and watering from the Mcmasters the night before don't know how he ever gets anything done. He is the type of guy that if he can squeeze you for so much as a dime he is happier than a pig in mud ... always asking if or saying things like don't you work anymore since i usually send one of my guys over to do the job , It always comes down to payday when i bring the bill to him ,he will piss and moan but I think with him it is just a big game to see if he can get a rise out of me . He has always paid and even though if anyone else calls me to patch & match out a modular I always run the other way , can't stand to do them more work than they are worth and nothing but a pain . The point is most GC are always going to try to get you to give them some kinda price break , but you can't . Wouldn't it be nice if they would give us a break on all the insurance , cell phone , materials , and all the other expenses that keep going up for us , yet we are suppose to lower ourselves along with our dignity when they want us to lower our cost . THINK NOT, Lets all just tell them Ok I will Give You some money so that i can come work for you.... Guys Quit Lowering Your Standards. Stick to your guns , Charge for your work what is fair and don't sell yourself short just because others want to profit from you... There are two kinds of people in the world those that go places and those that don't , the question is do you guys just want to make ends meet or do you want something to show for all your hard work ..... I believe and have seen this many times that if one door shuts another will open ....

JoeMudder · 04-28-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstilts

Makes me laugh thinking back at one contractor and this goes make over 30 years when I first started , My old boss use to do dynamic homes that came in halves , we would just tape them together usually a seam down the middle of the house , and re-text. Back then I was making the big bucks middle 70's a whole $4.50 an hour

which living at home and only just 17 was great , but the boss only charge them $100.00 per home , back to the point the GC son has carried on the business and still calls me to patch them together , He always shows up with dark sunglasses and when he does take them off his eyes are so blood shot and watering from the Mcmasters the night before don't know how he ever gets anything done. He is the type of guy that if he can squeeze you for so much as a dime he is happier than a pig in mud ... always asking if or saying things like don't you work anymore since i usually send one of my guys over to do the job , It always comes down to payday when i bring the bill to him ,he will piss and moan but I think with him it is just a big game to see if he can get a rise out of me . He has always paid and even though if anyone else calls me to patch & match out a modular I always run the other way , can't stand to do them more work than they are worth and nothing but a pain . The point is most GC are always going to try to get you to give them some kinda price break , but you can't . Wouldn't it be nice if they would give us a break on all the insurance , cell phone , materials , and all the other expenses that keep going up for us , yet we are suppose to lower ourselves along with our dignity when they want us to lower our cost . THINK NOT, Lets all just tell them Ok I will Give You some money so that i can come work for you.... Guys Quit Lowering Your Standards. Stick to your guns , Charge for your work what is fair and don't sell yourself short just because others want to profit from you... There are two kinds of people in the world those that go places and those that don't , the question is do you guys just want to make ends meet or do you want something to show for all your hard work ..... I believe and have seen this many times that if one door shuts another will open ....

I can relate to what you're saying here.

My father was an old time GC, built a lot of houses in his day and he treats me the same as any of his other subs. So I quit doing work for him. When I gave him a good price he couldn't (or maybe wouldn't) recognize it. I know full well that the last remodeling job he did he was getting $2.00 a foot to hang and finish. I charged him $0.35 to finish which was a bit low since it was a basement and very cut up. That means his profit was $1.30 a foot on the rest. He hung it so he made $1.30 just to hang it. Won't do another one unless I hang it also. Some time later it was brought up and because of what he said to me I told him I'd never work for him again.

I don't care if a person is related to me, if they strain at a gnat and swallow a camel, the ignorance is on their part. I know full well I could have gotten $0.40 a foot on that job. There were 45 degree angles and the rooms were small. He wouldn't even know how to finish the 45 degree angles unless I had gone there and done them. They don't realize that any time you wrap drywall around duct work it creates more angles and more work. The time is in the angles. Flats are nothing.

**silverstilts** · 04-29-2009, 07:10 AM

oh that sounds so true..... basements a little more living space but a whole lot more work with not only double the angles with

soffits

and headers but also more than likely ledges . more angles more bead , of course the only time i would charge more is if the basement is the only thing i am finishing in the home , if i were to do the main level as well i can make up the money overall on the job.... oh yes usually too the matter of getting the board down into the basement , even with a walk out most times it still has to be carried around to the the back side of the home ,,, the suppliers really love these jobs.... I too run the other way when friends or relatives want me to work for them , no matter how low you go it will never be low enough or good enough.... years ago late seventies I helped my uncle hang my own grandmothers home , but taped & finished it myself .. Things were really slow in the economy at that time interest rates were

thru

the roof , when i was done my grandma wrote me out a check for a whole $100.00 ... I could have just s??t my pants what the hell was that ?? hardly paid for my gas let alone the materials , but she was my grandma and to her that was a lot of money. I took it and acted grateful knowing full well it was not about making money on that job ( but i sure did need it at the time ) was burned once since then for a cousin agreed to a price (footage ) then when i was all done the son of a B said well you only work X amount of hours and this is what so & so says you should make per hour , again what the hell and who is so & so got to do with what i charge , pissed me of so much i vowed never again will i ever work for relatives or friends unless i decide to donate my time for free that's just the way it is... They all know this and do not ever question me.. just another lesson learned on road to wisdom & experience.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 05-27-2009, 02:42 PM

Wanted to update this thread with a new post:

So what are you guys seeing right now in the way of pricing for your areas?

for example...

i am currently getting beat out by bids that are .70 - .72 cents / sf.

which i think is pathetic. no offense to those of you bidding at this range....but a legit company like mine with overhead cannot bid this low. i understand every company has different operating costs/expenses......but either way, this is too low, period (and shame on the ones bidding LOWER than this).

whats everyones input?

**silverstilts** · 05-27-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom Drywall Svc.

Wanted to update this thread with a new post:

So what are you guys seeing right now in the way of pricing for your areas?

for example...

i am currently getting beat out by bids that are .70 - .72 cents / sf.

which i think is pathetic. no offense to those of you bidding at this range....but a legit company like mine with overhead cannot bid this low. i understand every company has different operating costs/expenses......but either way, this is too low, period (and shame on the ones bidding LOWER than this).

whats everyones input?

we are still talking about hanging and finish work correct ? and at that price are you only supplying mud ? the only ones still paying me what i charged a year ago around .90 to hang and tape are my regular GC the rest are hovering around .50 to tape and as low as .16 to hang plus rock.

**silverstilts** · 05-27-2009, 04:16 PM

I also just bidded one thats 540 some sheets all level 5 so i priced out at level 4 to finish @ .58 lowest i will go . with a add on for level 5 finish i entered an option of another .15 per ft to cover my a$$ the hanging was at .25 , if they think they can get it done for less so what ,the guys an A$$ and part owner of a local bank... don't need the headaches can't live on charity work.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 05-27-2009, 05:12 PM

well, let me state the givens for the prices i stated earlier so theres no confusion:

- hanging, finishing, and texturing complete, while supplying all materials and labor.

lets call that, standard.

so yea, like i said...im getting beat out by guys bidding @ .70 - .72 cents / sf.

which, for my market and i think most, is extremely low.....being that norms should be .85 - 1.00 / sf.

.85 being basic, 8' lid, "cracker jack box" style houses.
.90 - 1.00 being custom homes with varying clng hts (10' - 12'+)

**Darren@Partners** · 05-27-2009, 06:06 PM

Do you really want to know? (Trying to to as positive about this as possible) Custom is dead on. Getting beat by .02-.03 every day at .70-.72 bids on 10-11K homes. Yes, this includes all the board and mud and a 1 year warranty. Yes that's for work that by all rights should be going for .85-1.00 per bd ft. And I just can't bring myself to flip that bid down to .67-.66 to be damn sure I'll get that next one just to trade dollars.

Had been steady (not busy) for past 3 months with a house a week plus remodel/repair. Not gettin' rich, but moving a little dough. Now staring down the barrel of 2-3 weeks of nothin'.

Let the tapers have the week off (let is a loose term, didn't have a thing to put 'em on). Not to mention the hangers. Did a demo job solo yesterday. Just glad there'll be no payroll this week.

Good news is....I've got all week to collect the $$$$ due from this warm weather bump. Got one "builder" being a real di%% and had to end around him to the HO's bank (had waited over 6 weeks after completing the job) and still no check.

I digress, though. Custom, yes, it's a disgrace. Here it's the two biggest companies playin' this out with an a$$load of hacks, too. One hack lowballs a production builder for a few months, til something cracks, pleads bankrupcy and then resurfaces on the other side of town, and f***s his hangers and tapers the whole time. One of the big boys has beat his hangers to .06 and his tapers to .08-.10. Most of the old timers have hung it up, guys my age are 50-50, in & out of the biz.... Some days, I'm thinking the smart ones threw in the towel a year or so ago, that I'm a dumba$$ for sticking with it as long as I have. Then the phone rings for a couple of days, and I get convinced its turning around.

It's been like this for over two years now, but the pricing part has just been getting worse and worse. Bid a Hotel at .75 and got beat by 15%. Prevailing wage work....get beat by 30%. Am on bid invite list with a big GC, told 'em last week that I won't bid any more unless I get price guidance and/or some assurance that I can actually win a job and make a profit.

Sorry for the long post. But that's my input. Oh, and housing starts are so far down, we really don't have #s for it. No one will publish the permit #s cause it's so embarassing, they'll only print that sales are up (existing, FCs). Those #s are so much bs, they count it as a sale when the bank takes it and again every time they peddle to an Rei, etc.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 05-27-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Do you really want to know? (Trying to to as positive about this as possible) Custom is dead on. Getting beat by .02-.03 every day at .70-.72 bids on 10-11K homes. Yes, this includes all the board and mud and a 1 year warranty. Yes that's for work that by all rights should be going for .85-1.00 per bd ft. And I just can't bring myself to flip that bid down to .67-.66 to be damn sure I'll get that next one just to trade dollars.

Had been steady (not busy) for past 3 months with a house a week plus remodel/repair. Not gettin' rich, but moving a little dough. Now staring down the barrel of 2-3 weeks of nothin'.

Let the tapers have the week off (let is a loose term, didn't have a thing to put 'em on). Not to mention the hangers. Did a demo job solo yesterday. Just glad there'll be no payroll this week.

Good news is....I've got all week to collect the $$$$ due from this warm weather bump. Got one "builder" being a real di%% and had to end around him to the HO's bank (had waited over 6 weeks after completing the job) and still no check.

I digress, though. Custom, yes, it's a disgrace. Here it's the two biggest companies playin' this out with an a$$load of hacks, too. One hack lowballs a production builder for a few months, til something cracks, pleads bankrupcy and then resurfaces on the other side of town, and f***s his hangers and tapers the whole time. One of the big boys has beat his hangers to .06 and his tapers to .08-.10. Most of the old timers have hung it up, guys my age are 50-50, in & out of the biz.... Some days, I'm thinking the smart ones threw in the towel a year or so ago, that I'm a dumba$$ for sticking with it as long as I have. Then the phone rings for a couple of days, and I get convinced its turning around.

It's been like this for over two years now, but the pricing part has just been getting worse and worse. Bid a Hotel at .75 and got beat by 15%. Prevailing wage work....get beat by 30%. Am on bid invite list with a big GC, told 'em last week that I won't bid any more unless I get price guidance and/or some assurance that I can actually win a job and make a profit.

Sorry for the long post. But that's my input. Oh, and housing starts are so far down, we really don't have #s for it. No one will publish the permit #s cause it's so embarassing, they'll only print that sales are up (existing, FCs). Those #s are so much bs, they count it as a sale when the bank takes it and again every time they peddle to an Rei, etc.

100% .....fkkn sad.

btw, the part about letting the hangers and finishers off for a week , hahhahahhahah i know exactly waht you mean.

i was just talkin to my foreman about that:

"you know...the past 2 weeks is the lowest payroll weve had in years.........."

my foreman goes, "well...thats good"

i go "NO....thats not 'good'............it just shows you how slow we are"

he looks up at me like a little kid "yea...you're right...didnt realize that"

hahhahahha...poor guy.

its funny darren how you say 'at least ill have no payroll next week.'

...its the bitter-sweet sword, having no payroll. the less you have going out....the less you having coming IN.

sigh. good luck to you all, and stay up!

**silverstilts** · 05-28-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

Do you really want to know? (Trying to to as positive about this as possible) Custom is dead on. Getting beat by .02-.03 every day at .70-.72 bids on 10-11K homes. Yes, this includes all the board and mud and a 1 year warranty. Yes that's for work that by all rights should be going for .85-1.00 per bd ft. And I just can't bring myself to flip that bid down to .67-.66 to be damn sure I'll get that next one just to trade dollars.

Had been steady (not busy) for past 3 months with a house a week plus remodel/repair. Not gettin' rich, but moving a little dough. Now staring down the barrel of 2-3 weeks of nothin'.

Let the tapers have the week off (let is a loose term, didn't have a thing to put 'em on). Not to mention the hangers. Did a demo job solo yesterday. Just glad there'll be no payroll this week.

Good news is....I've got all week to collect the $$$$ due from this warm weather bump. Got one "builder" being a real di%% and had to end around him to the HO's bank (had waited over 6 weeks after completing the job) and still no check.

I digress, though. Custom, yes, it's a disgrace. Here it's the two biggest companies playin' this out with an a$$load of hacks, too. One hack lowballs a production builder for a few months, til something cracks, pleads bankrupcy and then resurfaces on the other side of town, and f***s his hangers and tapers the whole time. One of the big boys has beat his hangers to .06 and his tapers to .08-.10. Most of the old timers have hung it up, guys my age are 50-50, in & out of the biz.... Some days, I'm thinking the smart ones threw in the towel a year or so ago, that I'm a dumba$$ for sticking with it as long as I have. Then the phone rings for a couple of days, and I get convinced its turning around.

It's been like this for over two years now, but the pricing part has just been getting worse and worse. Bid a Hotel at .75 and got beat by 15%. Prevailing wage work....get beat by 30%. Am on bid invite list with a big GC, told 'em last week that I won't bid any more unless I get price guidance and/or some assurance that I can actually win a job and make a profit.

Sorry for the long post. But that's my input. Oh, and housing starts are so far down, we really don't have #s for it. No one will publish the permit #s cause it's so embarassing, they'll only print that sales are up (existing, FCs). Those #s are so much bs, they count it as a sale when the bank takes it and again every time they peddle to an Rei, etc.

So you are saying they supply the board ? That's included for .70-.72 I am appalled how can anyone survive on this. With all the trades Drywall is one of the most demanding on the body , let alone the skill involved . Just where will it end ? Are we to pay someone to do a job for them

???? What about the other trades ? Are they taking a beating also ? Maybe we should all get together and not do any work for anyone until they agree to pay us for what our work is worth , maybe after a few of the GC's get a little dirty and dusty and all fed up with the hard labor involved they will come to there senses ..... boycott comes to mind...

JoeMudder · 05-28-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstilts

So you are saying they supply the board ? That's included for .70-.72 I am appalled how can anyone survive on this. With all the trades Drywall is one of the most demanding on the body , let alone the skill involved . Just where will it end ? Are we to pay someone to do a job for them

???? What about the other trades ? Are they taking a beating also ? Maybe we should all get together and not do any work for anyone until they agree to pay us for what our work is worth , maybe after a few of the GC's get a little dirty and dusty and all fed up with the hard labor involved they will come to there senses ..... boycott comes to mind...

The lowest I'm aware that one of the companies I sub for has gone is .76 per foot. And they've told me that they are still being under bid. They pay their hangers .15 and finishers .15 so you can figure from there what they have left for themselves after buying materials. The catch is they're asking me not to charge them full price on the extras.

So now, after 6 years of not getting any increases, I'm actually working for less when everything else is going up.

What's wrong with this picture??

**Darren@Partners** · 05-28-2009, 03:10 PM

My price when I entered the contract end in '98 was .68 per bd foot plus extras (vaults, coffers, stretch) and the builder paid the scrapper. At the same time was getting .11 + .01 for nails,screws and glue to hang + extras for high work. We are now at or below those prices.

Custom Drywall Svc. · 05-28-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren@Partners

My price when I entered the contract end in '98 was .68 per bd foot plus extras (vaults, coffers, stretch) and the builder paid the scrapper. At the same time was getting .11 + .01 for nails,screws and glue to hang + extras for high work. We are now at or below those prices.

yea, "we are now at or below those prices" is an understatement.

as far as i know, the prices out right now are 1970's prices.

meaning, .55 - .70 cents / board sf is where all the hacks are playin ball at rite now.

.........yes, .55 cents. i was tellin Darren, may have mentioned it on here as well, cant remember, but i got beat out by an HVAC contractor who out bid my drywall for about .50 cents to a seemingly loyal GC.

thats another thing, "loyalty" nowadays is non-existent.

crap...im so frustrated, im starting a new thread. check it out and unload guys, please. this new thread will be an interesting one i promise.

what pricing levels SHOULD BE.

drywalljoe · 05-29-2009, 10:29 AM

in ohio , i heard ryan homes was paying 36cts and ryan supply the board. the hangers are hanging and scraping for 11ct the finishers are finishing, putting on the bead and texture for for 11 cts and they picked up the mud. wo ill work at mcdonalds first

JoeMudder · 05-30-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drywalljoe

in ohio , i heard ryan homes was paying 36cts and ryan supply the board. the hangers are hanging and scraping for 11ct the finishers are finishing, putting on the bead and texture for for 11 cts and they picked up the mud. wo ill work at mcdonalds first

Ryan is doing some crazy things here too, they're out in left field and no one's playing ball.

They're taking a lot of work away from many of the people here and the legitimate companies are getting irritated. When you go below .20 to hang and .20 to finish, that's just evil.

04-27-2009, 08:59 PM	#42
JoeMudder View Profile JoeMudder What's a Mudder to do? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (72) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity What's a Mudder to do? Trade: Drywall Finisher Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Sub Contractor bidding Hate to be the one to notice guys but I think our conversation is drifting a bit. This thread is more intended for bidding than it is about recession. Also, if you notice my original post I was more interested in the bidding in northern Kentucky. No one seems to have been able to address this yet. How about we open it up to the Cincinnati, Ohio area? Maybe that would make a bit of a difference. Anyone from there who can shed some light? I did notice a company hiring hangers for temporary positions north of Cincinnati which was encouraging. Not sure what they are paying per foot but would be good to know stuff like that. __________________ WallmasterDrywall.com Last edited by JoeMudder; 04-28-2009 at 05:08 PM.

04-28-2009, 07:41 AM	#44
silverstilts View Profile silverstilts Super Moderator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (951) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Super Moderator Trade: Drywall Contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern MN Posts: 951 Thanks: 9 Thanked 134 Times in 73 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding Makes me laugh thinking back at one contractor and this goes make over 30 years when I first started , My old boss use to do dynamic homes that came in halves , we would just tape them together usually a seam down the middle of the house , and re-text. Back then I was making the big bucks middle 70's a whole $4.50 an hour which living at home and only just 17 was great , but the boss only charge them $100.00 per home , back to the point the GC son has carried on the business and still calls me to patch them together , He always shows up with dark sunglasses and when he does take them off his eyes are so blood shot and watering from the Mcmasters the night before don't know how he ever gets anything done. He is the type of guy that if he can squeeze you for so much as a dime he is happier than a pig in mud ... always asking if or saying things like don't you work anymore since i usually send one of my guys over to do the job , It always comes down to payday when i bring the bill to him ,he will piss and moan but I think with him it is just a big game to see if he can get a rise out of me . He has always paid and even though if anyone else calls me to patch & match out a modular I always run the other way , can't stand to do them more work than they are worth and nothing but a pain . The point is most GC are always going to try to get you to give them some kinda price break , but you can't . Wouldn't it be nice if they would give us a break on all the insurance , cell phone , materials , and all the other expenses that keep going up for us , yet we are suppose to lower ourselves along with our dignity when they want us to lower our cost . THINK NOT, Lets all just tell them Ok I will Give You some money so that i can come work for you.... Guys Quit Lowering Your Standards. Stick to your guns , Charge for your work what is fair and don't sell yourself short just because others want to profit from you... There are two kinds of people in the world those that go places and those that don't , the question is do you guys just want to make ends meet or do you want something to show for all your hard work ..... I believe and have seen this many times that if one door shuts another will open ....

04-29-2009, 07:10 AM	#46
silverstilts View Profile silverstilts Super Moderator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (951) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Super Moderator Trade: Drywall Contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern MN Posts: 951 Thanks: 9 Thanked 134 Times in 73 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding oh that sounds so true..... basements a little more living space but a whole lot more work with not only double the angles with soffits and headers but also more than likely ledges . more angles more bead , of course the only time i would charge more is if the basement is the only thing i am finishing in the home , if i were to do the main level as well i can make up the money overall on the job.... oh yes usually too the matter of getting the board down into the basement , even with a walk out most times it still has to be carried around to the the back side of the home ,,, the suppliers really love these jobs.... I too run the other way when friends or relatives want me to work for them , no matter how low you go it will never be low enough or good enough.... years ago late seventies I helped my uncle hang my own grandmothers home , but taped & finished it myself .. Things were really slow in the economy at that time interest rates were thru the roof , when i was done my grandma wrote me out a check for a whole $100.00 ... I could have just s??t my pants what the hell was that ?? hardly paid for my gas let alone the materials , but she was my grandma and to her that was a lot of money. I took it and acted grateful knowing full well it was not about making money on that job ( but i sure did need it at the time ) was burned once since then for a cousin agreed to a price (footage ) then when i was all done the son of a B said well you only work X amount of hours and this is what so & so says you should make per hour , again what the hell and who is so & so got to do with what i charge , pissed me of so much i vowed never again will i ever work for relatives or friends unless i decide to donate my time for free that's just the way it is... They all know this and do not ever question me.. just another lesson learned on road to wisdom & experience.

05-27-2009, 02:42 PM	#47
Custom Drywall Svc. View Profile Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (421) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: Drywall Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 421 Thanks: 4 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding Wanted to update this thread with a new post: So what are you guys seeing right now in the way of pricing for your areas? for example... i am currently getting beat out by bids that are .70 - .72 cents / sf. which i think is pathetic. no offense to those of you bidding at this range....but a legit company like mine with overhead cannot bid this low. i understand every company has different operating costs/expenses......but either way, this is too low, period (and shame on the ones bidding LOWER than this). whats everyones input?

05-27-2009, 04:16 PM	#49
silverstilts View Profile silverstilts Super Moderator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (951) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Super Moderator Trade: Drywall Contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern MN Posts: 951 Thanks: 9 Thanked 134 Times in 73 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding I also just bidded one thats 540 some sheets all level 5 so i priced out at level 4 to finish @ .58 lowest i will go . with a add on for level 5 finish i entered an option of another .15 per ft to cover my a$$ the hanging was at .25 , if they think they can get it done for less so what ,the guys an A$$ and part owner of a local bank... don't need the headaches can't live on charity work.

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05-27-2009, 05:12 PM	#50
Custom Drywall Svc. View Profile Custom Drywall Svc. Senior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (421) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Senior Member Trade: Drywall Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 421 Thanks: 4 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding well, let me state the givens for the prices i stated earlier so theres no confusion: - hanging, finishing, and texturing complete, while supplying all materials and labor. lets call that, standard. so yea, like i said...im getting beat out by guys bidding @ .70 - .72 cents / sf. which, for my market and i think most, is extremely low.....being that norms should be .85 - 1.00 / sf. .85 being basic, 8' lid, "cracker jack box" style houses. .90 - 1.00 being custom homes with varying clng hts (10' - 12'+)

05-27-2009, 06:06 PM	#51
Darren@Partners View Profile Darren@Partners Super Moderator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (904) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Super Moderator Trade: Drywall Contractor / Hanger Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 904 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding Do you really want to know? (Trying to to as positive about this as possible) Custom is dead on. Getting beat by .02-.03 every day at .70-.72 bids on 10-11K homes. Yes, this includes all the board and mud and a 1 year warranty. Yes that's for work that by all rights should be going for .85-1.00 per bd ft. And I just can't bring myself to flip that bid down to .67-.66 to be damn sure I'll get that next one just to trade dollars. Had been steady (not busy) for past 3 months with a house a week plus remodel/repair. Not gettin' rich, but moving a little dough. Now staring down the barrel of 2-3 weeks of nothin'. Let the tapers have the week off (let is a loose term, didn't have a thing to put 'em on). Not to mention the hangers. Did a demo job solo yesterday. Just glad there'll be no payroll this week. Good news is....I've got all week to collect the $$$$ due from this warm weather bump. Got one "builder" being a real di%% and had to end around him to the HO's bank (had waited over 6 weeks after completing the job) and still no check. I digress, though. Custom, yes, it's a disgrace. Here it's the two biggest companies playin' this out with an a$$load of hacks, too. One hack lowballs a production builder for a few months, til something cracks, pleads bankrupcy and then resurfaces on the other side of town, and f***s his hangers and tapers the whole time. One of the big boys has beat his hangers to .06 and his tapers to .08-.10. Most of the old timers have hung it up, guys my age are 50-50, in & out of the biz.... Some days, I'm thinking the smart ones threw in the towel a year or so ago, that I'm a dumba$$ for sticking with it as long as I have. Then the phone rings for a couple of days, and I get convinced its turning around. It's been like this for over two years now, but the pricing part has just been getting worse and worse. Bid a Hotel at .75 and got beat by 15%. Prevailing wage work....get beat by 30%. Am on bid invite list with a big GC, told 'em last week that I won't bid any more unless I get price guidance and/or some assurance that I can actually win a job and make a profit. Sorry for the long post. But that's my input. Oh, and housing starts are so far down, we really don't have #s for it. No one will publish the permit #s cause it's so embarassing, they'll only print that sales are up (existing, FCs). Those #s are so much bs, they count it as a sale when the bank takes it and again every time they peddle to an Rei, etc. __________________ www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

05-28-2009, 03:10 PM	#55
Darren@Partners View Profile Darren@Partners Super Moderator Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (904) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Super Moderator Trade: Drywall Contractor / Hanger Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: KCMO area Posts: 904 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding My price when I entered the contract end in '98 was .68 per bd foot plus extras (vaults, coffers, stretch) and the builder paid the scrapper. At the same time was getting .11 + .01 for nails,screws and glue to hang + extras for high work. We are now at or below those prices. __________________ www.partnersconstruction-drywall.com

05-29-2009, 10:29 AM	#57
drywalljoe View Profile drywalljoe Junior Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (16) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Junior Member Trade: do all drywaller Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ohio Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Sub Contractor bidding in ohio , i heard ryan homes was paying 36cts and ryan supply the board. the hangers are hanging and scraping for 11ct the finishers are finishing, putting on the bead and texture for for 11 cts and they picked up the mud. wo ill work at mcdonalds first

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