Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish

 
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:22 PM   #1
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Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Hi all. New to forums. I'm building a new high-end home (3800 sq ft) in SF and wondering if I should go with Level-4 finish vs. Level-5. Its an additional $2,500 cost to do it. Is it worth it? Can I really tell the difference?

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Old 04-27-2011, 02:26 PM   #2
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


If it is within your budget go ahead and get the level 5. It tremendously helps in any high lighted areas, such as rooms with alot of windows or very large ceilings. If you are planning on having any wall finishes that have any sheen at all it will be money well spent.

Hire a local professional to do the work to ensure everything comes out good. I'm sure that someone on the forum who is located in your area would be able to do the work for you or suggest someone else who can.

Remember, you get what you pay for!
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:25 PM   #3
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


I would say more but m.t. buckets said it best! He is right on the money. Just remember 80% of the viewable surface in your home is drywall
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:26 PM   #4
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


when they say an xtra 2500.00 does that include a first coat [a primer specifically designed for level 5]to ensure a flat consistent sheen?
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:53 PM   #5
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


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when they say an xtra 2500.00 does that include a first coat [a primer specifically designed for level 5]to ensure a flat consistent sheen?
Doesn't that have to do more with painting?

Isn't Level 5 skimming out the entire wall with compound?
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #6
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


There are some high build primers out on the market that achieve top notch level 5 finishes. The ones that I am familiar with are sprayed on and not back rolled. The mfg's suggest to spray in on direction then let it tack off then spray the other direction. What is called the cross hatch method in my neck of the woods. The end result is about 8 or 10 mil thick. If you back roll this, you have the surface of a bastard file.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:17 PM   #7
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


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Originally Posted by M T Buckets Painting View Post
There are some high build primers out on the market that achieve top notch level 5 finishes. The ones that I am familiar with are sprayed on and not back rolled. The mfg's suggest to spray in on direction then let it tack off then spray the other direction. What is called the cross hatch method in my neck of the woods. The end result is about 8 or 10 mil thick. If you back roll this, you have the surface of a bastard file.
If you ask me, that's a gimmick used to sell more paint and not a true level five finish.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:19 PM   #8
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Builders solution on smooth walls and promar 400 on texture.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:25 PM   #9
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


I do a ton of level 5 finish jobs. i dont recomend a high build primer instead of level 5.. Its just not the same thing. Level 5 should be free of any imperfections then entire surface skim coated. The reason is to have the drywall board paper match with the applied joint compound covering joints butts screws etc... (Joint banding). Sherwin williams prep rite 200 is what I use but any top brand primer will do just fine. I highly recommend spray and backrolling. Backrolling is the only wat to get adhesion to guarentee a proper finish.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:34 PM   #10
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


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If you ask me, that's a gimmick used to sell more paint and not a true level five finish.
I have found that cross hatching gives a thourough coat. I have also through time found that if I overlap my spray fan 50%, I can achieve the same results quicker. I have had a few contractors see me doing this and stop me to ask me whf am I doing. I am able to do it without cross hatching but, others may have spray laps flashing through where it is heavier in one spot and lighter in another. Basically an experienced sprayer doesn't need to cross hatch.

Any dust on the seams will also affect the finished product. I use one of those Wooster triangle dust mops to remove the dust. If you don't dust the walls, all of the seams will be a little rough and require a light sanding. The high build primers don't sand off. When dry, you can't dent the finish with your fingernail. Man O' Man do the walls turn out slick and smooth when done.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:49 PM   #11
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Quote:
Originally Posted by M T Buckets Painting View Post
I have found that cross hatching gives a thourough coat. I have also through time found that if I overlap my spray fan 50%, I can achieve the same results quicker. I have had a few contractors see me doing this and stop me to ask me whf am I doing.
I was going to say doesn't ever painter overlap their spray patterns? Also it seems mandatory to use a new(er) spray tip so you don't leave tails.

We actually just sprayed Builders Solution on a nice smooth wall house today to achieve a level 5 finish. I guess it all depends how thick you put it on. More the better I guess.

There is already a thread on DT talking about spraying mud on for a level five. Wouldn't that be the way to go since there still would be no sanding and a five gallon buckets would be a lot cheaper? $8 compound filled with water for five gallons? Or over $50 for a five of paint? And you don't have to dust the wall before you spray the all purpose?

Last edited by Cratter; 04-28-2011 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:53 PM   #12
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cratter View Post
I was going to say doesn't ever painter overlap their spray patterns? Also it seems mandatory to use a new(er) spray tip so you don't leave tails.

We actually just sprayed Builders Solution on a nice smooth wall house today to achieve a level 5 finish. I guess it all depends how thick you put it on. More the better I guess.

There is already a thread on DT talking about spraying mud on for a level five. Wouldn't that be the way to go since there still would be no sanding and a five gallon buckets would be a lot cheaper? $8 compound filled with water for five gallons? Or over $50 for a five of paint?
i just sprayed 100 gallons of builders solution.yesterday at my site..with my new mark 4..used 621 tip 50 percent overlap 2600psi..beautiful finish verry happy ...today 220 sanded it all than two coats of builders solution topcoat.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:57 PM   #13
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Mud is fine if you have a Mark V sprayer. I have done the method of rolling it on with a 1" nap roller and another guy wiping it down. Both of these methods require a light sanding. I guarantee that I can spray high build level 5 primer quicker than both of these methods. And If no dust on my walls, absolutely no sanding.

I guess the method that I like the best is the high build primer. It is alot easier on me.
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:44 PM   #14
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Does the high build you use take care of the joint banding issues with semi gloss paint? Thats the problem I had with the builders solutions. Its is a decent product , but when doing high end stuff I like a level 5 finish over HB. When paying for a level 5 finish the customers usually want perfection. Thats what I give them. Anyways try this. Level 5 a wall then high build another. Then shine a 300W light directly against wall after 1st coat of finish Paint is applied. After this test let me know which one you prefer. Paint suppliers can claim level 5 finish paint all the want . Its just doesnt compare.
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:38 PM   #15
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Boco, I have had absolutely no problems with the Benjamin-Moore product. I can't remember the exact name of it right now. Sherwin- Williams has a similar material that I am not as happy with.

When I do stripes in a room I always insist on Ben Moore high build for a level 5. In my opinion it gives the slickest finish. Stripes come out the best on an extremely slick surface. I have worked with guys that couldn't keep a 1/2" knap from sliding on this product while back rolling finish coat.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:12 PM   #16
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Why is there a level 4?? Had to do a couple a few yrs back and now I refuse. They want smoothe wallbut dont want to PAY.level 4 is for retail space not rented out yet.Go with level 5 but make sure that includes a spray finish level5.I would wait till finish coat of paint to do any backroll .If they offer a skim coat level 5 make sure to use a better quality primer[not cheapstuff].The reason you want a tightroll or backroll is if any touchups are needed you can use a lil roller and it wont show as bad.Hope that helps your decision making
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:34 PM   #17
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Thanks for the back up Smisner.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:46 PM   #18
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Quote:
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Builders solution on smooth walls and promar 400 on texture.
promar 400 sucks. Why put a low grade finish paint on high quality tape job? Super paint is a much superior product. Cashmere for darker colors.
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Old 04-30-2011, 04:02 PM   #19
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Here's out dillema. Smooth walls nice house. We prefilled, taped, and two coats of mud. (is that a level 3 or 4?) Sanded all smooth. Sprayed the Builders Solution (to try and achieve a level 5 finish), but when we hold our 500W Halogen lights directly shining down the walls we can see all the flats!

Now it just might be that you won't be able to see them cause 500W directly against the wall is overkill but who wants to take that chance?
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Old 04-30-2011, 04:52 PM   #20
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Re: Level 4 vs Level 5 Finish


Do any of you have any experience adding Never-Miss to the compound when spraying a Level 5 Finish?
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