wipedown knife for plaster-need help

Jason

Doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best way in those threads, caz. Some guys consider a mist over a L4 to be a L5. (Seems like more of an ultra light orangepeeled L4 to me.) I gave it 2 trowels and 2 sands overhead. If it was my house, I'd want 2 trowels and a protective layer like TuffHide on the walls, but at that point I'd start looking into veneer plaster. Imo a L5 is a fill, which is why it calls for a leveling tool. There are always minor irregularities in the board face and even MY level 4 is going to need a 1/2mm of fill here and there.

Some guys like a squeegee trowel, some like knives or trowels, some mist and sand, some spray and called it done. As many L5 methods as there are people saying how to achieve it.

Got to differ with you on the roller tho. The airless is kickass for loading imo. Maybe it's because I don't have any roller skills. Haven't done any painting at all, really. Couldn't see myself going even 1/10 the pace without a gun and I'd get the stuff everywhere.

2buckcanuck

Roller skills

It's not too often cazna is right about something, but this time he is

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Mudshark

Gotta factor in set up time, roller versus spray rig. My guess is roller wins.

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Not liking the new look but trying to adjust to it.

2buckcanuck

Roller, spray rig, don't matter which one, it's the guy who is wiping it who better be fast

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Jason

You guys are completely crackers!

2buckcanuck

Why I'm saying Cazna is right, is b/c what a level 5 is to achieve.

A level 5 is to make a wall all one texture, so you get no light refraction or flashing off the wall. Your work is smooth, well the drywall is rough. It's not really meant to level out the walls, though it will fill in more blemishes. you seem to be trying to make mud a plaster system.

Also, from a while ago (had you confused), you can try running a 12" box twice on the walls/ceilings to get a level 5. I thought of doing this, and Silver stilts said, he has had success with that method. So he confirmed my assumptions

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cazna

Thats exactly what a level 5 is, Making the surface one texture, Like i said, Loading the primer/sealer with a sprayer can do that, If i paint a house, thats what it gets, BUT, under extreme light conditions, then this way wont fill any bigger dents, chips, seam edges, nail spots etc, Nor will any of the so call level 5 spray products.

Tuff hide huh, What a lot of bollocks, Tuff hide against what??? Nothing will make walls tough enough to handle a child, office, high traffic area, Nothing, and if it could, the paints still damaged so its a repaint anyway, So whats the point of it, Sheetrock etc making a product that costs more so they make you buy an over priced sprayer?? All thats needed is a standard sprayer that sprays sealer, Thats all, If you want a filling level 5 for harsh light, Then trust me, Get a big 30mm nap lambs wool roller, Not a cheap roller, They fall apart, Thin the AP mud till its runny, And roll it on, Then trowel it off, You wont believe just how even level, ridge free it can get, It actually barely needs sanding, Just a light raduis sand, then everythings level and full as it can be. What else are you going to do?? Get an expensive Mark 5 graco, Mask it all up and spray the mud, You could, If you wanted to invest that much, but i guess it depends how much of this work you do. Its a lot of time setting it up, Battling with hoses, cleaning, servicing etc. For how many jobs per year?? Thats still no where near as good as what a roller and trowel can do, Honestly, Even if it was a not so good level 4 finish, Rolling and troweling would still massively improve that.

You could roll and trowel the worst light walls then spray seal the lot etc if you get what i mean.

I understand its hard though as most of you arnt painting and most painters dont understand the whole level 5 concept, I do both, not always, but i can try these things to see what it all does, That cross hatch spraying and loading sealer though really does a great job. It can take care of a lot, A good light check and touch up over level 4 walls first, then cross hatch spray 3 coats of standard sealer is very very good, Its only a very minimal difference between this and the roller/trowel method.

Thats all you need to know for level 5, Expensive level 5 spray products, over rated and over priced sprayers its all a total revenue gathering con, Standard sealer and AP mud is all thats needed. Please, someone or some company prove me wrong, Its all about learning on DWT

Jason

Kind of. It's an improvement over painted compound & board but clearly not the same level of finish as a troweled skim coat, yet both are equivocally called "level 5."


I think you and I just take a different approach. It makes good sense to me to invest time and money setting up the pump, hose reel, hopper, compressor, etc, in order to become a stronger contractor. Of course, if I don't do enough work to justify the investment then you're right: it will have been money poorly spent.


I'm definitely inexperienced with painting but I've got to call you out on this one anyway, man. Grinding back primer with the PC?! Really? I've sanded back thinned down Knauf sprayed (2 coats) with a 521 and promised myself never again. Are you sanding it 500w light dead smooth or just knocking the high points down? Or does your primer sit down way smoother than mud? Seems like it wouldn't sand nearly as easy as mud so how much sweat are you putting into sanding it back?



The machine still seems like a good investment to me because you can put a lot more through it than just L5 products. I can't speak for the durability of the products themselves, and I'm a little uneasy about the whole putting stronger stuff over weaker stuff question associated with their use. I'd be budgeting at $3/sqm for product only too - labour on top. Now that's rich. But some people just have too much money, so if it's something they like the sound of then it's wise to be able to offer it.

Jason

I still say you're joking.

cazna

Its not grinding back, That sounds terrible, More like floating with a pc and a dull 220g, When you spray sealer it brings out the board paper, sanded areas, etc, Its very gritty, Thats why backrolling with a roller is popular, It rubs it all in and spreads it about, But if you really load up the sealer, Then you can float over it with a pc and make no dust for a sweet second coat or radius sand it smooth and make dust, It comes up as smooth as can be, I dont know how your paints are labeled but not all sealers are the same, We have interior sealer undercoat,(That can be cheap, Could be that knauf you mention) Thats fairly soft, Its still ok, But then we have interior/exterior primer undercoat, Thats a different stuff again, Its a bit harder, The PC with a 220 struggles to cut through it, but will float over it and make it very smooth, Perfect for a level 5 as it fills and levels the board paper, sanded board, smooth plaster textures that can show up with level 4 under light. Its almost like a tuffhide i guess, Makes the walls slighly more chip resistant, to a point, Thats the stuff to get, And i Prob use a third more sealer spraying like this as i would use just rolling, This sets up the walls for a first top coat of colour with a roller that sits and levels very even as it cant suck away into the board, Like it can with a roller coat of sealer, It almost looks finished, Then thin the top coat a little and keep edges wet and its a very good finish.

It almost looks very orange peel spraying like this, you think its going to run, But it dosent, The wall takes it up and drys it back, You do need to watch the board dust, This needs to be gone, Hence its important to pc sand it for dust removal, then wooster dust eater it, or the sealer can sit on top of it and possably delaminate going this thick.

A 521 is a bit big, To much paint to fast, Prob good for bigger walls but tighter areas, Corners, walls to ceiling corners, wardrobe, smaller rooms etc, It could get messy, To much paint, I use a 519 the little less paint gets me more even coverage in these areas, I use a 212 for door and window frames, Mabye a 414 for smaller rooms, I can use a 614 fine finish for spraying finish coat ceiling flat and it comes up great, Thats very tricky though, You need a good level 4, Then a heavy primer/sealer sand smooth, Then two top coats for that, It can easy turn to chit on you doing that.

Do you have a sprayer jason?? Gazman had a Mk5 and apla tech set up for sale. He is in Oz.

2buckcanuck

post #70 to #75 Level 5, spraying mud???

I never joke around Jason, I'm a very serious type person

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Jason

Ya mate. Got a Titan. The Knauf I sprayed with a 521 tip is drywall mud, not paint, so it's about as small as you'd go.

As for the apla coaters, I got a couple from another guy here. To his credit, he never said they were anything special but I wanted to try 'em out. And I did. Well... maybe I can canabalize some components off them for other projects, haha.

gazman

Well thats the truth. They are nothing special.

Jason

Andy Kaufman has nothing on you, 2buck! I am rolling on the floor!

Jason

Don't sell 'em short, gaz. The blades are great for scraping dead bugs off the windscreen.

gazman

So maybe not a complete waste of money. I will have to tell my wife I think she gets upset every time I mention the word Apla-Tech.

Jason

Fresno trowel for sale. Mint condition, never used.